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Old 11-11-2013, 2:25 AM   #1
Acroholic Acroholic is offline
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RO Production rates go down in winter

This is just a general FYI to anyone not familiar with RO production rates as they relate to the temperature of the supply water.

Reverse Osmosis membrane water rates are temperature dependent, meaning the colder the source water, the less RO the membrane will produce, assuming all other factors are the same (water pressure, etc). Source water is much colder in winter vs summer in Atlanta.

So if you have noticed a decrease lately in your RO production rates, it is probably not your RO membrane, or clogged carbon pre/post filters or anything else. When the source water temperature warms up in the spring/summer, the rates will increase.

Some folks warm up their source water to offset the decrease in production. The decrease could also be offset via a booster pump to increase the pressure of the source water going to the RO unit.

I have never done either of these. I just run the RO unit longer.

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Old 11-11-2013, 7:24 AM   #2
rjrgroup rjrgroup is offline
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The product is higher purity in colder temperatures as well.

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Old 11-11-2013, 7:36 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by rjrgroup View Post
The product is higher purity in colder temperatures as well.
Isn't zero TDS going to be the same regardless?

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Old 11-11-2013, 8:14 AM   #4
rjrgroup rjrgroup is offline
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There is always going to be some smaller particles that aren't measured. Those bypass the membrane more at a colder temperature. There is a lot more in water than dissolved solids. The difference may be minimal but it's certainly worth noting. I use to heat my water until I learned this, now I let it be whatever temp it comes out of the supply.
Edit: you probably aren't getting 0 tds out of your membrane, you should after di though.

Last edited by rjrgroup; 11-11-2013 at 8:19 AM.

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Old 11-11-2013, 2:26 PM   #5
Giulianom Giulianom is offline
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I think this thread is Sticky material.

Yes?

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Old 11-11-2013, 2:56 PM   #6
rjrgroup rjrgroup is offline
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I would like to convey an explanation of reverse osmosis I recently stumbled across...
Ingested nutrients are dissolved and processed, then enter the blood stream of your body. Those nutrients then travel to all areas of the body where they are "pulled" through your veins to the surrounding tissues where they are needed. The "pulling" is an osmosis process.
Reverse osmosis is the opposite.
The way a membrane works;
Water enters the feed or outer area of the membrane. The pressure builds and begins pushing or squeezing the smaller water molecules through a series of perforated films, imagine a trash bag with millions of tiny wholes wrapped up really tight. The larger particles, contaminants, continue down the surface of the film and exit the waste line. The smaller water molecules eventually make their way through all the wrapped film layers and are collected in the central product or permeate tube and viola, purified water. This is why temperature effects product to waste ratios. They warmer water is less dense and penetrates easier thus allowing more water with attached contaminant molecules through.I hope I haven't confused anyone...?
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File Type: gif membrane1.gif (25.0 KB, 41 views)

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Old 11-19-2013, 8:27 PM   #7
Mikesmith34 Mikesmith34 is offline
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Science is a beautiful thing.

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Old 11-19-2013, 8:41 PM   #8
rjrgroup rjrgroup is offline
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Yes it is...except in school...then it's not so beautiful.

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Old 11-27-2013, 6:03 AM   #9
Buckeye Field Supply Buckeye Field Supply is offline
 
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Something to consider - get yourself a flow restrictor to use during winter, and a different one to use in summer. Try to keep the ratio of waste water to purified water closet to 4 to 1.

Russ

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Old 12-04-2013, 2:28 PM   #10
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Thanks for the info... Didn't know this, but it helps explain why my output is different from day to day as we have the temp. swings! I woke up just the other morning to about 5 gal of RODI water in the basement because the output had sped up! Typically we produce about 4 gal/hour... I'll watch the weather to see if I may need to 'adjust' my general guideline.

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Old 12-04-2013, 2:56 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjrgroup View Post
There is always going to be some smaller particles that aren't measured. Those bypass the membrane more at a colder temperature. There is a lot more in water than dissolved solids. The difference may be minimal but it's certainly worth noting. I use to heat my water until I learned this, now I let it be whatever temp it comes out of the supply.
Edit: you probably aren't getting 0 tds out of your membrane, you should after di though.
You mean bypass less at colder temps because of constriction?.

ive got a couple r/o units -a srealth 200 and another 67 stage tbat might beed memvranes because if storage.

I was on a houseboat where all of my water was tanked at a steady water temp because it was ambient indoors so I never noticed a change in production

I like the info on this thread it will help me this go round!




Edit: Stealth *200

7 stage*

Sorry I need to turn this auto co-wrong off

Edit: And im learning alot so please forgive me... just trying to wrap my head around the science completely...

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Old 12-04-2013, 3:02 PM   #12
Hnguyen Hnguyen is offline
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This explains why its taking me almost 1 hour and 20 minutes to get 50 gallons of water instead of my normal hour wait even with my booster pump.


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Old 12-18-2013, 2:14 PM   #13
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I always wondered about that ,why my production would differ for time to time great post.


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Old 12-18-2013, 5:07 PM   #14
Mikesmith34 Mikesmith34 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just josh View Post

You mean bypass less at colder temps because of constriction?.

ive got a couple r/o units -a srealth 200 and another 67 stage tbat might beed memvranes because if storage.

I was on a houseboat where all of my water was tanked at a steady water temp because it was ambient indoors so I never noticed a change in production

I like the info on this thread it will help me this go round!




Edit: Stealth *200

7 stage*

Sorry I need to turn this auto co-wrong off

Edit: And im learning alot so please forgive me... just trying to wrap my head around the science completely...
Actually you will have more bypass due to the increase in water density. Warmer water is less dense so it is easier to permeate the membrane.

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Old 12-18-2013, 5:53 PM   #15
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Ok bypass more WASTE water per gallon clean. Now THAT makes sense. Thank you

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Old 01-17-2014, 2:20 PM   #16
michael grady michael grady is offline
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I'm glad to see this thread.

I think I may actually have a fouled membrane though. My RODI 6 stage unit is supposed to produce 75 gallons/day. It is producing only about 25 for some reason. When I purchased it and set it up new (about 2 years ago) it was producing nearly 75 gallon/day. How long are these membranes supposed to last?

I have changed all the other elements in my system with no help...

Thanks,

Michael

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Old 01-17-2014, 2:33 PM   #17
twhaddon twhaddon is offline
 
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I have a question on this as well....

I also had a 75 gpd system and then purchased the 150gpd upgrade. I also get the water from my sink so I can turn it a little on the warm side and it definitely comes through faster.

Question:
Warmer water coming through does not mean that less clean water is getting through, right? I have started to see an issue with my tank and hair algae recently and nitrates going up. wondering if the RODI is less clean now.

Since I upgraded to the 150gpd system I also got a booster pump to help the pressure which now gives around 90psi. But, now my TDS meter reads 0 going in and 0 going out. I am guessing the booster is pushing through so quickly that it can't be read. When I unplug the booster it then reads about 4 going in and 0 out. RODI is less than a year old so I don't think it's the membrane or DI.

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Old 01-17-2014, 3:15 PM   #18
Buckeye Hydro Buckeye Hydro is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michael grady View Post
I'm glad to see this thread.

I think I may actually have a fouled membrane though. My RODI 6 stage unit is supposed to produce 75 gallons/day. It is producing only about 25 for some reason. When I purchased it and set it up new (about 2 years ago) it was producing nearly 75 gallon/day. How long are these membranes supposed to last?

I have changed all the other elements in my system with no help...

Thanks,

Michael
Membranes often last 2 to 5 years, but depending upon the quality of your feedwater, they can scale/foul in less than a month. What is your water temperature and water pressure?

Russ

Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by twhaddon View Post
I have a question on this as well....

I also had a 75 gpd system and then purchased the 150gpd upgrade. I also get the water from my sink so I can turn it a little on the warm side and it definitely comes through faster.

Question:
Warmer water coming through does not mean that less clean water is getting through, right? I have started to see an issue with my tank and hair algae recently and nitrates going up. wondering if the RODI is less clean now.

Since I upgraded to the 150gpd system I also got a booster pump to help the pressure which now gives around 90psi. But, now my TDS meter reads 0 going in and 0 going out. I am guessing the booster is pushing through so quickly that it can't be read. When I unplug the booster it then reads about 4 going in and 0 out. RODI is less than a year old so I don't think it's the membrane or DI.
Warmer feedwater will mean slightly higher TDS in your RO water - but not much. If your RO is near 0, and your DI is 0, you are good to go.

Do you have the probes on your meter rotated correctly?

There's no issue with the booster pump pushing RO water through too quickly for the meter to read.

Russ

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Old 01-17-2014, 3:58 PM   #19
michael grady michael grady is offline
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Hi Russ,

My water temp is probably around 70 degrees, and it appears my pressure is around 80.

Thanks,

Michael

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Old 01-17-2014, 4:31 PM   #20
twhaddon twhaddon is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeye Hydro View Post
Membranes often last 2 to 5 years, but depending upon the quality of your feedwater, they can scale/foul in less than a month. What is your water temperature and water pressure?

Russ

Edit:

Warmer feedwater will mean slightly higher TDS in your RO water - but not much. If your RO is near 0, and your DI is 0, you are good to go.

Do you have the probes on your meter rotated correctly?

There's no issue with the booster pump pushing RO water through too quickly for the meter to read.

Russ

My TDS meter is hooked up on the RODI system and I followed directions from the BRS video. I picked up a handheld TDS meter at lunch today and am going to test the water after going through the system with that to see if I get a different reading.

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