Algae ID... cyano or dinoflagellate?

[cr500_af]

Ansley came over (THANKS!) and voted dino. Not to sound like I doubt him, but the more I read the more it seems the two are very similar in appearance.
This showed up after adding a piece of LR, mostly on it but a good amount ended up elsewhere. The rock showed nothing but sand and detritus, so I rinsed it in SW. After the bloom, I pulled the rock and am "killing" it, but I need to formulate a plan of attack. It keeps my softies p.o.'d and closed up, and my RBTA is very unhappy even though there is nothing on it (which puzzles me).

All my parameters are as usual except a phosphate level of .5ppm, which appeared along with the rock. pH and alk are a little high, ca and mag a little low but that is nothing new. I've been slowly raising ca and mag.

After some reading on WWM, it seems that the majority who write about dino are corrected and told that what they have is really cyano.
So, what are these nasty spider webs?

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[crowe]

For what it is worth I have never seen cyno spider webbed. usually it is a uniformed layer.

 

[jesspete]

Looks like cyano to me. Sorry, Ans. I've seen it do that when I was having problems back in the day.

 

[dakota9]

It's not dino unless it has the telltale air bubbles. Dino will also float to (and cover) the surface of the tank, because of said air (Co2?) bubbles.

 

[oil_fan]

I've never seen dyno but that sure does look like the cyno I get. Give it a few days and it'll spread out more and look like a layer.

 

[cr500_af]

Dakota9;361634 wrote: It's not dino unless it has the telltale air bubbles. Dino will also float to (and cover) the surface of the tank, because of said air (Co2?) bubbles.

There are air bubbles on some of the strands, making them float upward... but not on too many of them. The only stuff on the surface is in little wads around the power cords to the powerheads and the temp probe.

 

[tgray3]

I'd vote cyano Barry. I've seen it look like spider webs depending on the flow. The flow will twist the mat up and make it look stringy.

 

[cr500_af]

It seems the standard protocol I've read on here is water changes, reduced feeding, skim heavily and lights out. Am I right?

WWM advised someone to INCREASE their photoperiod as strong light hurts cyano. I'm a little doubtful of that because the rock that "imported" it didn't show any at all under the standard flourescents that it had been under. Under my T5s it went ape-crap in 24 hours.

 

[ster]

Decreasing your photoperiod is not likely to help combat cyano. The main cause of cyano I've found is that you have too little flow in that area.

 

[cr500_af]

Ster;361648 wrote: Decreasing your photoperiod is not likely to help combat cyano. The main cause of cyano I've found is that you have too little flow in that area.

The problem there is that I have it on virtually every rock, even the ones that have TONS of flow. Like right in front of a Koralia 4.

 

[grouper therapy]

what type water source are you using for topoff and water changes?

 

[cr500_af]

grouper therapy;361656 wrote: what type water source are you using for topoff and water changes?

RO/DI. Also (since this) I have a phosban media bag and carbon in the sump (under the overflow). My TDS is 0. It used to read 7 but I determined that it was because I was testing in a cup that had held SW for pH testing, so no worries on the water. I've changed 15g, then 10, then 10 more since this happened (Saturday night the rock went in, Sunday it went ape and came out).

 

[grouper therapy]

cr500_af;361659 wrote: RO/DI. Also (since this) I have a phosban media bag and carbon in the sump (under the overflow). My TDS is 0. It used to read 7 but I determined that it was because I was testing in a cup that had held SW for pH testing, so no worries on the water. I've changed 15g, then 10, then 10 more since this happened (Saturday night the rock went in, Sunday it went ape and came out).

Sounds like your water is fine. I will get cyano sometimes I then change my carbon and it seems to go away. Sometimes gfo will spark a little cyano if the water is not run across carbon immediatly after the gfo.

 

[cr500_af]

Are these air bubbles indicative that it IS dino and not cyano? They're only on the higher points of the rocks... so maybe it is just "catching" micro bubbles (though I only get those when the return has been off, i.e. not lately)?

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[cr500_af]

Also, what is the easiest way to kill off any nuisance algae on the problem rock? It seems like I've read here that boiling it is risky due to the possibility of pressure in the voids rupturing it.

Would an extended soak in freshwater do it? Put it out in the hot sun for a few days? Extreme cold? Hot water shy of boiling?

 

[dakota9]

Barry, If your whole (or the majority of your) tank looked like the last picture above, then I'd definately say you have a problem with dino.

+1 on the Phosban, as that will help any cyno issue, but will do nothing for dino. Go ahead with manual removal of any you can get, 50% WC, lights out period for 3 days or so.

 

[dakota9]

Also, if ANY of this is floating on the surface of the tank, it's not Cyno.

You'll loose so much micro fauna and flora by re-curring the live rock, it really isn't to your advantage to do so. Besides, the next livestock addition you add to your tank could bring with it yet another nusaince algea outbreak, and then your efforts are all for not. There's better ways to fix nusaince algae issues than any that were suggested above, mainly through nutrient control.

Good luck addressing this issue, let us know the outcome

 

[cr500_af]

Yesterday the algae seemed to be on the decline, so I manually removed a LOT last night. Today it is back and seemingly not bothered by my efforts.

I am still stumped by my stubborn 8.6 pH that won't come down no matter what, and the fact that my RBTA is upset and staying retracted most all the time now. That is my biggest concern; I can deal with cleaning up algae. I do NOT want the anemone to be lost. I'm still feeding it regularly, and at least it eats well.

 

[dakota9]

Have you done a 50% water change?

 

[cr500_af]

After more asessment, I am convinced Ansley was right. There are many more bubbles today, even in the patches that aren't stringing upward. Oddly, I've noticed that the worst concentrations are in HIGH flow areas.

My SPS seem to be fine, but my zoas and palys, gsp and anthelia is MISERABLE. Staying closed, lots of crap on them. It seems to irritate them for a while, not just because there's something on them. I can siphon the softies clean and they still don't open right before the stuff is back on them.

SO, if I am working under correct decision-making and it IS dino, does the treatment differ from cyano? Should I still be in low feeding/lots of WC's/manual removal mode? How about lights? It seems that this stuff likes the light. Yesterday I used actinics only, and it looked a little better, today I ran them normal and it's back to bad again.

And, I hate to ask this, but is there a product to help? Something fairly innocuous like Chemi-clean? I don't LIKE the idea of dosing chemicals, but I also don't want to lose corals to this stuff by letting it continue to coat them. I will alter my husbandry (mainly feeding lighter) to keep it away, but I would be lying if I said I wouldn't take advantage of some help in getting it out of there.