Alkalinity, PH, and Ca

[tebriel]

So, I remember reading somewhere that Alk, PH, Mg and Ca are related and they all need to be in sync with each other, but I can't find the article. I've been dosing Kent Marine Ca and Keen Reef's Mg supplement daily at the recommended dose and my Ca hovers at 340 with my Mg at 1000. Alk is 4 meq/L, PH is 8.1. Alk/PH is from Seachem test kit, Ca and Mg are from Elos. Should I stay the course? My clam is open and brightly colored, the 2 SPS I have have good long PE, softies all look good and are fully inflated.
1. Are lower than NSW conditions just as good as NSW conditions, or would I get better growth if I raised my levels.
2. Is the fact that my PH is a little low the contributing factor to why I can't get my Ca/Mg to go any higher?
3. Does a Ca supplement go bad after say 2 years?
4. Do you have any links that would be helpful for me to learn more about these interactions?

Thanks!!

 

[ldybkr]

http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chemcalc.html">http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chemcalc.html</a>

wet web media has a great article on it that I just read yesterday

 

[budsreef]

Try this article.

 

[tebriel]

LDYBKR;217754 wrote: http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chemcalc.html">http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chemcalc.html</a>

wet web media has a great article on it that I just read yesterday[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the calculator, that was very helpful!

[QUOTE=][B]Budsreef;217756 wrote:[/B] Try this article. [IMG]http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php">http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php</a>. I think you need to decide what level you want these at and then dose accordingly. Getting them there will be a different amount than maintaining the appropriate levels.[/QUOTE]

Great read, an article that wasn't too in-depth and explained things clearly and succinctly. Thanks!

 

[ralph atl]

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-06/rhf/index.php">http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-06/rhf/index.php</a>



[IMG]http://web.archive.org/web/20021127040526/http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm">http://web.archive.org/web/20021127040526/http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm</a>


[IMG]http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/chem.htm">http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/chem.htm</a>

 

[tdwyatt]

tebriel;217752 wrote: So, I remember reading somewhere that Alk, PH, Mg and Ca are related and they all need to be in sync with each other, but I can't find the article. I've been dosing Kent Marine Ca and Keen Reef's Mg supplement daily at the recommended dose and my Ca hovers at 340 with my Mg at 1000. Alk is 4 meq/L, PH is 8.1. Alk/PH is from Seachem test kit, Ca and Mg are from Elos. Should I stay the course? My clam is open and brightly colored, the 2 SPS I have have good long PE, softies all look good and are fully inflated.
1. Are lower than NSW conditions just as good as NSW conditions, or would I get better growth if I raised my levels.

What are you keeping in the system you're describing? Fish only? Octocorals, stony reef top corals and clams? a general mix? Think in terms of setting up your system to mimic a particular biotope, this will avoid compromisese tht might otherwise lead to plain survival rather than seeing your system thrive.

tebriel wrote: 2. Is the fact that my PH is a little low the contributing factor to why I can't get my Ca/Mg to go any higher?

A lot of this will depend on what is in the tank, as well as what salinity you're running and the ongoing conditioins in your system. Keep in mind that there are very few organisms that use Mg as a nutrient in our closed systems, so Mg should not be consumed from the tank. HOWEVER, injudicious use of 2-part additives WILL deplete Mg as the leftover sodium and chloride begin to skew the proportionality of the conservative elements in seawater. The resulting NaCl accumulates in the system in ever larger proportions of the seawater mix, so that it gradually ceases being ASW, becoming a simple brine mix in the system. This is not (usually) a problem when equimolar amounts of calcium and bicarbonate (alkalinity) are used for hermatypic supplementation via kalkwasser or a Ca reactor and two-part additives are only used for occasional adjustment.

tebriel wrote: 3. Does a Ca supplement go bad after say 2 years?

It depends on how it is stored. If stored in tightly closed containers without the presence of any carbonate or water, it will be fine; but just leaving it open to the atmosphere in the humid South for a few day, even in a loosly-closed container, will turn it into a big lump of rock-hard CaCO3 as the hygroscopic mix attracts enough water to make the chemicals reactive. Once to this point, it is really very poorly soluble (as calcite is the product), and will do little to help adjust the levels of Ca++ or alkalinity needs in a coral reef system.

tebriel wrote: 4. Do you have any links that would be helpful for me to learn more about these interactions?

Most of what you have as issues is addressed DIRECTLY in the following starting around post 25, but I think you would benefit from reading the entire thread (but it is a bit long): http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f77/how-does-sg-affect-ca-levels-30385.html?">http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f77/how-does-sg-affect-ca-levels-30385.html?</a>


HTH, post any q's you might still have or if clarification is needed.

 

[etoh_is_good]

mg is low. how did mg get so low? did you or do you dose kalk water? fortunately adding mg is easy, but as all things reef go slow. unfortunately, getting mg higher will involve a lot of powder as the available mg is low per mass. i use seachem mg to keep my mg level up.

 

[tim8111]

etoh_is_good;217975 wrote: mg is low. how did mg get so low? did you or do you dose kalk water? fortunately adding mg is easy, but as all things reef go slow. unfortunately, getting mg higher will involve a lot of powder as the available mg is low per mass. i use seachem mg to keep my mg level up.

The Mg solution he is using is what I make at my store. It is a 2 part mix with 5 cups of Magnesium Chloride and 3 cups of Magnesium Sulfate per gallon. It should be able to raise the Mg levels in his solana. I would double the dose for a week and check the levels to see if the have raised 100 or so points and continue increasing the dosage till I saw 100 ppm increase in a week and continue that until you reach 1400 to 1500 ppm.

Thanks,
Tim

 

[tebriel]

tim8111;218023 wrote: The Mg solution he is using is what I make at my store. It is a 2 part mix with 5 cups of Magnesium Chloride and 3 cups of Magnesium Sulfate per gallon. It should be able to raise the Mg levels in his solana. I would double the dose for a week and check the levels to see if the have raised 100 or so points and continue increasing the dosage till I saw 100 ppm increase in a week and continue that until you reach 1400 to 1500 ppm.

Thanks,
Tim

Yeah, I've been double dosing daily, about to 2x that because I'm still going nowhere fast and yes, I'm shaking it up really good, especially now that you gave me that cap!

 

[tim8111]

tebriel;218056 wrote: Yeah, I've been double dosing daily, about to 2x that because I'm still going nowhere fast and yes, I'm shaking it up really good, especially now that you gave me that cap!

Keep increasing the dose. Have you tested your kit against another one to make sure it is acurate? The Magnesium shouldn't affect any other parameters as you increase the dose, just don't pour the entire gallon in.

Thanks,
Tim

 

[tebriel]

tim8111;218059 wrote: Keep increasing the dose. Have you tested your kit against another one to make sure it is acurate? The Magnesium shouldn't affect any other parameters as you increase the dose, just don't pour the entire gallon in.

Thanks,
Tim

No, I haven't tested it against another kit, I should do that. In fact, I need to see if my stuff came in at your store, I'm going to call you. Now.