Alternative ways to cool tanks?

[dsmitchell]

I've been thinking about getting a chiller, but am not sure I want to put up with the noise, electricity usage, or the price for that matter. So I was wondering what the alternatives are (other than the obvious evaporation technique).

For example, why aren't there just plain standalone radiators I could just pump water through? If I don't have to pull down the temperator a lot (only a few degrees), wouldn't such a solution be enough? Such a solution exists for PC's -- look at the Zalman Reserator.

Or how about just pumping water through a very long hose and back?

Does any of this exist? Do any of you have other DIY or simple chilling solutions?

David

 

[james s_]

Fans are what I use. cheap alternative but there is some noise associated with them,and increased evaporation.

 

[wbholwell]

If you just need to pull the temp down a few degrees, evaporation will do it. Evaporation is the most effective method of cooling (learned that in thermodynamics)- that's why we sweat. Pumping water though a radiator sounds very scary (unless you can find one made of titanium). Who knows what kind of heavy metals are in them. (People who drank moonshine made in distillers made from radiators weren't exactly geniuses.) Plus, the closer the temperature of the fluid in the radiator is to the ambient temperature, the less effective it is. When you add the heat from the extra pump needed to pump water through it, I doubt it would lower the tank temp at all. As far as pumping water through a long hose, that won't work either unless you have a very long hose traveling through a very cold environment. That being said, I've heard of someone pumping water through tubing coiled inside a mini-fridge. I'm not sure how well it worked, though. Probably not too well because, vinyl tubing is not a very good conductor of heat. But if you happen to have an unused mini-fridge lying around, give it a shot and let us know how it works. Personally, I recommend the tried and true fan-over-the-sump. Works wonders. But if you have a very large tank it may cause humidity problems. In that case a chiller is the best solution.

Hope I've been helpful

 

[wbholwell]

^^^ Sorry that was so long. Fans = Good

 

[cameron]

Fans are your only real option and they rely on low humidity and air cooler than the temp of the tank. If one of those two doesn't exist, you will need a chiller. Radiators and such work on the same principles as fans and the pump used to pump the water through the radiator probably creates as much or more heat than is disipated.

 

[cameron]

wbholwell;42085 wrote: If you just need to pull the temp down a few degrees, evaporation will do it. Evaporation is the most effective method of cooling (learned that in thermodynamics)- that's why we sweat. Pumping water though a radiator sounds very scary (unless you can find one made of titanium). Who knows what kind of heavy metals are in them. (People who drank moonshine made in distillers made from radiators weren't exactly geniuses.) Plus, the closer the temperature of the fluid in the radiator is to the ambient temperature, the less effective it is. When you add the heat from the extra pump needed to pump water through it, I doubt it would lower the tank temp at all. As far as pumping water through a long hose, that won't work either unless you have a very long hose traveling through a very cold environment. That being said, I've heard of someone pumping water through tubing coiled inside a mini-fridge. I'm not sure how well it worked, though. Probably not too well because, vinyl tubing is not a very good conductor of heat. But if you happen to have an unused mini-fridge lying around, give it a shot and let us know how it works. Personally, I recommend the tried and true fan-over-the-sump. Works wonders. But if you have a very large tank it may cause humidity problems. In that case a chiller is the best solution.

Keep in mind evap cooling requires low humidity. Once the air around the area is saturated cooling no longer takes place.

 

[jefft]

Keep the tank in a room the is air conditioned like my wife keeps my living room and even with MH's the heaters will be working a lot. lol

 

[jetchris]

David i was in the same predicament. I broke down and bought a pacific coast chiller 1/10 horsepower - easy to hook up and works wonders! I bought mine new for $335 it was free shipping if i spent $400 so of course i found some extras to make it $400. When you come over on Sat i'll show you how mine is setup.

 

[cameron]

Also keep in mind a chiller is a great backup when the A/C in the house fails which will happen sooner or later.

 

[jefft]

Cameron;42150 wrote: Also keep in mind a chiller is a great backup when the A/C in the house fails which will happen sooner or later.

One of the reasons the wife insisted on two seperate system cross connected for upstairs and downstairs. Darn daughter of a contractor will drive you to the poor house if the SW hobby doesn't do it first.:lol2:

 

[cameron]

That is still possibly problematic depending on how it is wired into the main system and how many thermostats you have. If they are wired seperately and have seperate thermostats then you are good to go, but I have seen almost half as many thermostats freak out as I have compressors go in an AC unit.

 

[ouling]

I upgraded the radiator on my car to a 3'' pure aluminum core. You can try that out, but Im not sure how pure is PURE though.

 

[cameron]

Aluminum is a bad metal for reef tanks or food systems. I would think titanium or stainless steel would be better selections. However, you still need air around the radiator that is cooler than the tank. If the air is warmer, you will heat the water. If it is the same, the pump to push it through the radiator will heat it up.

Evaporative cooling is your best bet but it has limits especially in the south due to humitidy. Personally, I run my tank at around 77. Fans kick on at 77.5. If my tank gets above 80 then my chiller comes on. It rarely comes on and then usually days when I have the windows open and I am running the house hotter than usual.

Go with T5 lighting and fans. You will probably never have your tank above 79 if you keep your house around 76 or lower.

 

[FutureInterest]

The larger the tank, the more you're going to be battling humidity overall and the less effective evaporative cooling will be.

One alternative I've read about is embedding a bunch of pipes underground and pumping water through them to cool the tank. There was a thread on this somewhere on RC or the lesser known TRT, where someone used ground cooling effectively. I remember that he simply used PVC, which is not a great conductor but seemed to get the job done.

 

[mojo]

You might want to check out the article I wrote for our wiki: http://www.atlantareefclub.org/wiki/Cooling">http://www.atlantareefclub.org/wiki/Cooling</a>

The key line: "[B]Thus, for every gallon of water that is evaporated, it's the same as running a 0.65 hp chiller for one hour[/B]. Assuming that a 0.65 hp chiller would require around 1000 watts of electricity and a typical clip on fan requires less than 15 watts [IMG]http://www.epinions.com/Electric_Fans--reviews--clip_on"><span style="color: #3366bb;">[3]</span></a>, a fan is about 67 [I]times</em> as efficient."

As others have stated, this will depend on a number of factors - mostly humidity...

 

[jefft]

Cameron;42171 wrote: That is still possibly problematic depending on how it is wired into the main system and how many thermostats you have. If they are wired seperately and have seperate thermostats then you are good to go, but I have seen almost half as many thermostats freak out as I have compressors go in an AC unit.

I'm a retired Industrial Electronic tech w/ac accreditation, got it covered.

 

[cameron]

jefftullius;42325 wrote: I'm a retired Industrial Electronic tech w/ac accreditation, got it covered.

Ahhh... so you do. I am just paranoid about my own system. I find there are areas to cut costs but chillers are one area I recommend everyone (who doesn't have your credintials) to purchase when living in the south. Even if you put the thing up to 82 and never use it unless you have an emergency, it is still a good thing to have. Homes in the summer without AC can easily climb to the high 90s and they can do it pretty quickly. $200-$400 is a small price to pay for peace of mind on something easily worth 10 times that or more.

 

[mitchelliii]

In that case, I am a blazingly efficient example of thermal cooling. I sweat like a horse noe compared to when I was younger. Who is doing the study on whether or not weight gain is a factor. My own extra insulation is probably the cause!

Back to your regularly scheduled channel..

I will admit that having the plumbing in my basement now is a LOT better upstairs from a heat humidity (vs. under the aq. in the same room - and I can add a refuge easily. and noise standpoint. However to those that wonder if that will solve the problem - I still need to use a fan to keep it cool. I think a small quiet fan in the canopy will dramatically help and I use a larger vortex fan in the basement on the sump. It cools MUCH better when blowing on the sump overflow - but of course gets a lot more spray.

wbholwell;42085 wrote: If you just need to pull the temp down a few degrees, evaporation will do it. Evaporation is the most effective method of cooling (learned that in thermodynamics)- that's why we sweat. Pumping water though a radiator sounds very scary (unless you can find one made of titanium). Who knows what kind of heavy metals are in them. (People who drank moonshine made in distillers made from radiators weren't exactly geniuses.) Plus, the closer the temperature of the fluid in the radiator is to the ambient temperature, the less effective it is. When you add the heat from the extra pump needed to pump water through it, I doubt it would lower the tank temp at all. As far as pumping water through a long hose, that won't work either unless you have a very long hose traveling through a very cold environment. That being said, I've heard of someone pumping water through tubing coiled inside a mini-fridge. I'm not sure how well it worked, though. Probably not too well because, vinyl tubing is not a very good conductor of heat. But if you happen to have an unused mini-fridge lying around, give it a shot and let us know how it works. Personally, I recommend the tried and true fan-over-the-sump. Works wonders. But if you have a very large tank it may cause humidity problems. In that case a chiller is the best solution.

Hope I've been helpful

 

[dsmitchell]

Thanks guys. Based on the discussion here, I increased the voltage to my canopy fans and have brought the temperature down 3 degrees, though I will have to refill my top-off more often. So I'll be able to hold off on a chiller purchase.

I'm still surprised no one sells a titanium radiator that can be air cooled with a fan, which would be much quieter. But anyway...

Speaking of running hoses through a mini-fridge, do you think this would work?

http://usb.brando.com.hk/prod_detail.php?prod_id=00286">http://usb.brando.com.hk/prod_detail.php?prod_id=00286</a>

:-)

David

 

[cameron]

No. Typically refridgerators work on cooling something slowly. Water doesn't stay in the cooling chamber long enough to be of any use. If you want to drive down water temps quickly, you need a rather large refrigerant unit which is what a chiller is.

I shutter to think what a titanium radiator long enough to actively cool a tank would cost. I am quite sure it would be as much or more than a chiller.