Ok everyone, I would like your feedback. Don't shoot me!!! I have always planned to run an apex, I love the convenience and flexabilty that it offers. But you basically give it total control over your system, so when something goes wrong it's usually not good. With that being said does the good out weigh the bad I guess, or if you are running one would you do it all over again or go without?
Apex value!!!
- Thread starter Reefchef
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if i were to do it all over again, i would still go with apex, even if it's just the classic apex.
for me, it's more about streamlining the process and GIVE apex certain control over the tank. for example, during maintenance when return pump is off, everything is turned off except the light and all resume their respective tasks afterwards. the ato/skimmer/UV don't turn on 30min afterwards. with a 2.5yr old and a newborn, i cannot see myself with the timer and turn things on/off manually.
at the end of the day, the tasks i have given apex is very rudimentary. turn this on at this time and turn that off at that time. it's really no different from your smart outlets that can be purchased from Amazon. the value of apex comes in when you all these "smart outlets" on the EB8/EB832 integrated into 1 single platform. i don't track ph, temp, salinity over the course of tank's life. i don't touch virtual outlets, etc that's built into the apex. these are not important to me, but it's the consolidated platform that sold me
for me, it's more about streamlining the process and GIVE apex certain control over the tank. for example, during maintenance when return pump is off, everything is turned off except the light and all resume their respective tasks afterwards. the ato/skimmer/UV don't turn on 30min afterwards. with a 2.5yr old and a newborn, i cannot see myself with the timer and turn things on/off manually.
at the end of the day, the tasks i have given apex is very rudimentary. turn this on at this time and turn that off at that time. it's really no different from your smart outlets that can be purchased from Amazon. the value of apex comes in when you all these "smart outlets" on the EB8/EB832 integrated into 1 single platform. i don't track ph, temp, salinity over the course of tank's life. i don't touch virtual outlets, etc that's built into the apex. these are not important to me, but it's the consolidated platform that sold me
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In a nutshell, it's great as a multi-channel programmable timer.
You can also use the digital input module to wire in switches you can then push for conditional events.
Such as a feeding mode switch, to turn off Vortech's & such during feeding for a few minutes, then turn them back on automatically.
Some people are more comfortable using it to have more control, based on parameter feedback via probes. Such as by using the new Triton.
I'm not convinced there's enough redundancy for me to go to that degree of control yet. Too many failures along the road has made me a little gun shy.
You can also use the digital input module to wire in switches you can then push for conditional events.
Such as a feeding mode switch, to turn off Vortech's & such during feeding for a few minutes, then turn them back on automatically.
Some people are more comfortable using it to have more control, based on parameter feedback via probes. Such as by using the new Triton.
I'm not convinced there's enough redundancy for me to go to that degree of control yet. Too many failures along the road has made me a little gun shy.
My asked has saved my system on multiple occasions via temp alerts, it's worth every penny. Monitoring is a great feature as well, i used to be obsessed with checking the graphs, but now I check periodically to see any trends taking place.
Buy one.
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Buy one.
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I actually got one off the forums a few months ago at a steal at $600 for the full version with salinity, ph, ORP, and temp probes. I think they sell one with just the ph probe and temp probe for $600 now. But - you might find one used for sale.
Even an apex jr or the new version of it is beneficial. No need to spend a ton, they sell on r2r am the time. I picked up my classic locally for 175.
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Thank you guys for all the great feedback, I was just looking for different opinions. I actually have a full system including a bob, just haven't hooked it up yet. I was just getting a little nervous about some of the horror stories so I just wanted the insight from some of you guys. Thank you
There are always going to be horror stories. Always. An Apex is good risk mitigation but there's still a risk whenever systems are as delicate and complex as a large saltwater reef system. One thing I try to keep in mind is that you don't hear much from the thousands and thousands of people running their Apex systems who've received alerts on temp or alk levels that took a few minutes to correct. Sometimes it seems like the internet in general is just a concentrated dose of worse-case-scenarios.
If you need help with setup and programming we can help
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like you kinda said, it's great when it works... I have had numerous off/on, works/doesn't, random display goes out, then all of a sudden works on my back up apex, internet/fusion issues all the time, etc.
But working good now lol
I really would like another option with all the benefits, but newer, not much more $$ and works better
But working good now lol
I really would like another option with all the benefits, but newer, not much more $$ and works better
Thank you bro, I greatly appreciate that. Now that the tank is up and running, my control board and apex is next. I need a break for about a week or so first!!! I will never judge a new build for this type mess again, I understand now!!!
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I love my Apex too. I've been using a Neptune controller since the Aquacontroller 2.
I have mine controlling everything. pH in my CA reactor, ATO through a Kalk reactor, heaters, chiller, lights - everything.
The key to having it run your mission critical items is in the setup and programming. Examples:
The main drawback is my Apex has become mission critical. If it were to fail, I would be in trouble running my tank. For this reason, I have spare parts (EB8, temp probe, main controller, etc).
I have mine controlling everything. pH in my CA reactor, ATO through a Kalk reactor, heaters, chiller, lights - everything.
The key to having it run your mission critical items is in the setup and programming. Examples:
- Use heaters with built in thermostats (common). Set the built-in thermostat to 1 degrees higher than your tank temp. If something goes wrong with your Apex (temp probe falls out of the tank, probe goes bad, for example) you will never cook your tank. Code your heaters to turn off if the tank temp is 5 degrees below your set point. This will protect you in the case where your temp probe falls out of the tank or has gone haywire.
- Set the built in thermostat on your chiller one degree cooler than you want your tank. Same protection as the heater situation above.
- Don't only set alarms for temp too high, set them for temp too low. This will alert you to a temp probe or heater/chiller problem.
- Always have more than one temp probe (I have 3). Set high and low alarms on all probes. This way, when one of the temp probes goes haywire (it will eventually) - you will get an alarm right away and you can take corrective action to prevent your tank from getting too warm or too cool (manually turn off heaters, etc).
- For Kalk top-off - have triggers that stop ATO action if the tank pH gets too high. Use a slow topoff pump (I use an aqualifter that pumps at a drizzel) and pace the topoff doses over long periods (I only topoff for 1.5 minutes every 10 minutes) when the sump is low. NEVER connect an ATO to an fast, unlimited top-off supply. Only top-off at night during lights off to keep the pH from dropping too low overnight. Do not topoff when the lights are on - you don't need the pH boost when the lights are on.
- Have backup level switches and associated alarms for ATOs. I have 3 switches - too low, too high and top-off. When the topoff switch fails, it will only topoff up to the too full or too low and an alarm is triggered.
- Wire all switches with failure in mind. If you have a switch that controls your topoff, for example, wire it so the pump runs when the switch is closed. This way if the switch gets disconnected or fails to close properly, the top-off will not run. Eventually you would notice your sump is low and you would investigate the failure. No harm to your system. If you wired it the other way (so topoff occurs when the switch is open), if the switch gets disconnected, the topoff will run unchecked causing an overflow (unless you have a failsafe too full switch). Opposite for alarm switches. If you want a float switch to tell you when your tank is too full, you would wire it so the alarm is triggered when the switch is open. This way, if the wiring comes loose or breaks, the alarm is triggered and you can go investigate why the false alarm. If you wired it the other way (active on closed) and the wire broke, you wouldn't know the wire broke until an event occurred and your tank was overflowing.
The main drawback is my Apex has become mission critical. If it were to fail, I would be in trouble running my tank. For this reason, I have spare parts (EB8, temp probe, main controller, etc).
Thank you guys for all the different options. It's nice to be able to see different ends if the spectrum, as far as what all you can have it control. To be honest I was leaning toward @schwaggs way, as far as controlling everything but may change that a bit. Because as he stated if it goes down it could be fatal, at least if you use it for mainly monitoring its it's a little more forgiving if something happens. I will probably use it for monitoring, lights, and powerheads. I may still use the bob for the skimmer, powerheads, and return pump to be able to fo maintenance and feeding mode so it'll still be pretty involved!
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Not a bad idea to start slow with monitoring, alarms, light control. Then as you get more comfortable, add more control items (temperature control, pH, feeding, spill monitoring, etc).
I have been building my control system over the course of 10 plus years. It takes time to create safe, reliable, fault tolorant high levels of automation. I guess like everything in reefing, nothing good happens fast, even in automation!
Like others have said above, plenty of people in the club that willing to help with setup and programming. Just ask!
Now that the EB832’s are UL listed it’s a much better feeling. I’ve ran Curt’s stuff from the X10 days. I won’t have a tank without one. You know where I stand on Apex.
Get yours hooked up already lol.
Get yours hooked up already lol.
