AquariumPlants.com Regulator

[snowmansnow]

ok, this is a thread that is a split off of another, but I thought it may get more attention with its own title.

I know several of us have this particular regulator.
here is the link with details.
http://www.aquariumplants.com/CarbonDoser_Electronic_Co2_Regulator_p/co2.htm">http://www.aquariumplants.com/CarbonDoser_Electronic_Co2_Regulator_p/co2.htm</a>

Being new to the Cal reactor world, and not being able to afford messing things up on my existing sps tank, I just wanted to make sure I'm doing things right the first time.

I realize this is an expensive regulator, but this isn't the thread to discuss whether it it worth the $.

1st question / observation.
This regulator has NO solenoid
I assume the fail safe is built into the electronic bubble counter correct?

2nd question / observation
Will I need a controller for my RKL / PH probe?
The reactor in question will have a 2nd stabalization chamber, and the output of the reactor will be dumped very close to my bubble king skimmer (from what I understand this will help stabilize PH because of gas exchange?)

I'll have more questions, but this is a start.

thanks for any help... especially from those who have been using this regulator.

B

Edit: here is the info if you don't wanna click the link

CarbonDoser Electronic CO2 Regulator NOTE: This is an 'introductory price' This product has forever changed the introduction of CO2 into an aquarium...Used for CO2 injection for a freshwater planted aquarium, or a Calcium reactor in a saltwater application. We guarantee, that, nowhere on this planet can you find a BETTER or MORE PRECISE regulator! (This is OUR baby, we built it, tested it, and patent it) The problem of 'dumping' is completely eliminated with our regulator. Dumping is always a problem with (ALL OTHER) regulators which utilize a needle valve. Simply because, a needle valve relies on the pressure on both sides of it for it's accuracy. So, even though you have it set at a certain 'bubble rate', once the pressure in the cylinder (or the outside atmospheric pressure) changes, so will the amount of co2 that passes through the needle valve. This is why it is physically impossible for any and ALL other regulators that rely on a 'mechanical needle valve' to ever be consistent. Our regulator does not have a needle valve, but instead, it has an electronic valve that opens and closes in a fraction of a second, (each 'opening and closing' equates to a bubble) and, due to the fact that it is 'electronic' the 'bubble rate' can NEVER change, and, once it is set, it can never vary more than +/- 1/1,000=of a second.
FEATURES:
-fully automatic
-fully electronic
-perfectly accurate (from 4 bubbles per second (240 per minute) down to 1 bubble per 10 seconds. (Count can NEVER vary more than 1/1000th of a second!)
-fully adjustable: you can adjust the 'bubbles per second' (or 'seconds per bubble') & size of the bubble (very tiny bubbles all the way up to very large bubbles)
-NO bubble counter (you count the LED light flashes instead of bubbles through a bubble counter)
-NO solenoid (that overheats and eventually fails)
-No needle valve (the 'timing of the "bubbles' is fully electronic) -Low voltage (12 volts & only draws .5 amps)
-3 year bumper to bumper warranty. (non transferrable/original purchaser)(after warranty expires, we will repair unit for $50 or less. Meaning, this is the "last" regulator you will ever have to buy.
-Yes, it can be controlled with all pH controllers (just like others with a solenoid...just plug it in to your pH controller)
-Available with optional LCD 8 digit resettable counter (has 'backup' battery, will not lose it's count)
-Now available: 'Just the Box'... Many customers currently have a 'very expensive' regulator body, with poor quality needle valves/bubble counters/solenoids, so, we are now offering the 'electronic control box'" separately to use with your existing reg body. They utilize a 1/4in or 1/8in NPT thread size. (contact us if you wish to send your reg body and have us assemble it and test it for you, this service is currently FREE!)

 

[acroholic]

1. Yes, the electric valve is the same as a solenoid. Powered off it is closed. Powered on it is open.

2. You don't "have to" get a controller, but I wouldn't operate one without it as a failsafe. If you don't use one, you will need to test for KH frequently in order to dial in the bubble count and the bubble size.

 

[snowmansnow]

thanks for the reply Acro...

So when I do get a SL1 and probe for my RKL.. I will measure the PH in the 2nd chamber so that it is = to what I want in the tank?

about how long would it take the "change" to happen in the reactor so that the ph will be reflected? I mean ... just increasing the bubble size wouldn't increase the PH immediately... would it?

And I do have it right? That the more co2 into the system the lower the PH will fall ?

Thanks,
B.

 

[snowmansnow]

what size tubing will i need to exit the regulator?

 

[sewer urchin]

I will measure the PH in the 2nd chamber so that it is = to what I want in the tank

I not sure about this statement, I haven't seen your set up...

I believe that the pH probe that is connected to the controller should be in the first chamber (the one that the CO2 is added to) the 2nd chamber is usually just buffers the mildly acidic effluent a closer to 7ish. I would want to control the main reaction chamber and just let the buffer chamber do it's job.

Be careful about having the main reactor become to acidic you media could turn to mush and nuke the tank

 

[acroholic]

SnowManSnow;818720 wrote: thanks for the reply Acro...

So when I do get a SL1 and probe for my RKL.. I will measure the PH in the 2nd chamber so that it is = to what I want in the tank?

about how long would it take the "change" to happen in the reactor so that the ph will be reflected? I mean ... just increasing the bubble size wouldn't increase the PH immediately... would it?

And I do have it right? That the more co2 into the system the lower the PH will fall ?

Thanks,
B.

Sewer Urchin is right. You want to measure the pH in the reactor itself, not the second. That is where pH changes will first be reflected. The 2nd chamber is just there to raise the pH of the effluent some and add a bit more dissolved media.

Ph inside a reactor can change pretty quickly. CO2 dissolves in water quickly.

Yup...the more CO2 in the reactor, the lower the pH. KH too high, decrease the bubble count. KH too low, increase the bubble count, and you can also increase the effluent rate somewhat as well. Alternatively, unless your controller is set super low already, the easiest thing to do, IMO, is just reset your reactor pH setpoint. KH too low, set the reactor pH a bit lower. KH too high, raise it some. I've just always found the easiest thing to do is change one thing regarding the three things you can play with with a reactor, which are bubble count, effluent rate, and controller setpoint.

Once I got my regulator set with a constant bubble count and effluent rate, I just raised or lowered the controller setpoint until I maintain a constant KH of 9. The controller (DA RKE for reference) allows ultra fine pH level adjustments inside the reactor, like going from 6.50 to 6.51.

As well, you should regularly calibrate your pH probe when using a reactor, although I have never seen more a .3 units of pH drift in mine even after 9 months of straight use.

 

[snowmansnow]

Thanks for the information.. I'm SURE I'll ask more, maybe even the same thing once I get everything in hand.

This also helps me see why some people run a kalk reactor in conjunction with the Ca reactor.

I already have one online with my osmolator... is there any reason to take it off?

_________
So.. let me put this in my own words... to set the Ca reactor up with the (soon coming) controller (sl1 and probe RKL)...

I would set the bubble count to a medium rate.. measure the PH in the 1st chamber (I THINK there is a probe slot)... If the PH is too LOW.. DECREASE the bubble rate... until the PH reads... ?????? What? my target PH ? or a lower PH so that more media can be dissolved and the other chamber can balance it?

B

 

[acroholic]

Thanks for the information.. I'm SURE I'll ask more, maybe even the same thing once I get everything in hand. This also helps me see why some people run a kalk reactor in conjunction with the Ca reactor. I already have one online with my osmolator... is there any reason to take it off?

The Regulator uses standard 1/8" ID tubing, from one of your earlier Qs.

If you run a Nilsen inline with your ATO, you may have ups and downs in your KH, depending on if you have variable evaporation. Removing it is up to you, but be aware tuning your calcium reactor will be different with vs without a Nilsen stirrer, as part of your total calcium and KH will come from the Kalk, as well as the calcium reactor. I don't have one on mine right now. I removed it because I could not get a steady KH using it in addition to my calcium reactor.

Grouper Therapy drips his kalk 24/7 and says he does not have a problem maintaining a steady KH, but he does not use a Nilsen.[/QUOTE]

So.. let me put this in my own words... to set the Ca reactor up with the (soon coming) controller (sl1 and probe RKL)...

I would set the bubble count to a medium rate.. measure the PH in the 1st chamber (I THINK there is a probe slot)... If the PH is too LOW.. DECREASE the bubble rate... until the PH reads... ?????? What? my target PH ? or a lower PH so that more media can be dissolved and the other chamber can balance it?

Measure your KH in the DT. Then, set your bubble count to 50-60 bubbles per minute (or close), set your effluent rate to about 60 ml/minute (or close), set your controller pH to 6.7, then let it rip.

Daily, after that, I would test your system KH about every time the same day, and if you see your system KH dropping lower than where you like it, set your controller pH setpoint a bit lower, like by .05. Like from 6.7 to 6.65, then test KH daily and see if it rises a bit. Keep lowering the controller pH setpoint every couple days until your KH stabilizes where you want it.

If you see your system KH rise higher than you like, set your controller pH a bit higher, like by .05, from 6.7 to 6.65, then test KH daily and see if it lowers a bit. Keep raising the controller pH setpoint every couple days until your KH stabilizes where you want it.

You can basically tweek three things in a Ca Reactor setup: the effluent rate, the bubble count rate, and the controller reactor pH setpoint. I find it easier to adjust the controller setpoint. Most calcium reactor manufacturers tell you to start out at an effluent rate of about 60ml/min and 50-60 bubbles per minute.

Periodically test for calcium and magnesium during this time just as you normally would. You may have to dose these until your reactor is dialed in.

Also note that it is common belief that if you lower the reactor pH to 6.3 or lower, you may turn your media to mush, although Seth has lowered his to 6.0 and says his media is staying fine, and that he no longer has to dose any external calcium or magnesium with his set this way. He uses that TLF Reborn media like you use. I don't use it, so I cant report on it. I use CaribSea ARM Extra Coarse in my reactor and Coarse in my media reactor. My pH setpoint on my system is 6.45. Your final setpoint will depend on your system itself and what stable KH reading you want to maintain.

Stable system KH is what you want to achieve using a calcium reactor.

 

[snowmansnow]

Acroholic;818879 wrote: The Regulator uses standard 1/8" ID tubing, from one of your earlier Qs.

If you run a Nilsen inline with your ATO, you may have ups and downs in your KH, depending on if you have variable evaporation. Removing it is up to you, but be aware tuning your calcium reactor will be different with vs without a Nilsen stirrer, as part of your total calcium and KH will come from the Kalk, as well as the calcium reactor. I don't have one on mine right now. I removed it because I could not get a steady KH using it in addition to my calcium reactor.

Grouper Therapy drips his kalk 24/7 and says he does not have a problem maintaining a steady KH, but he does not use a Nilsen.

which ph probe would you recommend to use with an SL2 ?

Measure your KH in the DT. Then, set your bubble count to 50-60 bubbles per minute (or close), set your effluent rate to about 60 ml/minute (or close), set your controller pH to 6.7, then let it rip.

Daily, after that, I would test your system KH about every time the same day, and if you see your system KH dropping lower than where you like it, set your controller pH setpoint a bit lower, like by .05. Like from 6.7 to 6.65, then test KH daily and see if it rises a bit. Keep lowering the controller pH setpoint every couple days until your KH stabilizes where you want it.

If you see your system KH rise higher than you like, set your controller pH a bit higher, like by .05, from 6.7 to 6.65, then test KH daily and see if it lowers a bit. Keep raising the controller pH setpoint every couple days until your KH stabilizes where you want it.

You can basically tweek three things in a Ca Reactor setup: the effluent rate, the bubble count rate, and the controller reactor pH setpoint. I find it easier to adjust the controller setpoint. Most calcium reactor manufacturers tell you to start out at an effluent rate of about 60ml/min and 50-60 bubbles per minute.

Periodically test for calcium and magnesium during this time just as you normally would. You may have to dose these until your reactor is dialed in.

Also note that it is common belief that if you lower the reactor pH to 6.3 or lower, you may turn your media to mush, although Seth has lowered his to 6.0 and says his media is staying fine, and that he no longer has to dose any external calcium or magnesium with his set this way. He uses that TLF Reborn media like you use. I don't use it, so I cant report on it. I use CaribSea ARM Extra Coarse in my reactor and Coarse in my media reactor. My pH setpoint on my system is 6.45. Your final setpoint will depend on your system itself and what stable KH reading you want to maintain.

Stable system KH is what you want to achieve using a calcium reactor.[/QUOTE]

Edit: and will a check valve be needed?

sorry for the questions in different posts.. they just come to me at weird times

 

[acroholic]

which ph probe would you recommend to use with an SL2 ?

I use a DA probe...really doesn't matter as long as it has a BNC connector for the SL2.

and will a check valve be needed?

always use a check valve with CO2 between the cylinder and the regulator. Your AP Reg comes with a check valve in the box.

 

[snowmansnow]

ok ordered SL1, which will get me the PH reading I need, a nice probe, some solution to set it with a solid check valve for the C02.. I think I'm set.

Guess I have an extra check valve for other uses

Thanks for the step by step above... it takes a while to sink in for me sometimes haha.

Hopefully I can get things up and running and slowly ease it into the existing system.

B

Edit: I will have to upgrade the RK firmware I'm sure though.. always hate doing that for some reason.. only have macs at home.. common DA get with the program haha

have to take to the office and do it