ATO question

[spacepony]

So I'll be likely getting a vertex puratek RO/DI system that comes with a solenoid pressure switch thingy. It says one can hook it up to a float valve so you don't have that nasty little issue of telling your spouse you have a new swimming pool in the basement...:doh:
My question is, can't this be an atomatic top-off system, then? For instance, drain the rodi into a sump/bucket/reservoir with the float valve in it, as the water in that evaporate (or gets used), then the float valve goes down, and voila the ro/di turns back on. Kinda like a toilet with a leak?

 

[kirru]

You don't want to attach it directly to your sump as if it were to fail... you'd really have a swimming pool and a bad day with your tank...

Now, if you are planning on hooking it up to a, lets say a 40gallon brute trashcan like i do, then you can put a kent float valve thingy in there and as you use it, it refills it. i've been doing that for a little over a year now...

i'm sure you could hook up a container to an ATO and have it top off your tank water and have the container hooked up to the RO/DI so as you top off water you can top the container off, but i wouldn't do that..

good luck

 

[grouper therapy]

very easy to do if your unit came with a storage tank. I 'm not sure why everyone is scared to hook up the rodi with a storage tank to the ato. Just put the solenoid valve on a timer so that it only tops off a couple of times a day. If the float valve was to stick on, the solenoid would shut the water to the float valve off after what ever time period you set it to. say 5 minutes. If that still is enough protection then add a float switch to turn the solenoid off if the water level reaches a certain height in the very unlikely event that the other two devices failed. You can also add a solenoid valve to the supply line to the rodi unit so that it only makes water a certain time of day.

 

[weaglereefer]

I thought I remembered reading that it was a no-no to have the RO/DI running for short intervals several times a day, vs. one long run once or twice a week?

 

[rbredding]

yes, some people use it as a topoff... but as kirru said, it's not failsafe..


I've actually got an extra solenoid lying around.. I was trying to figure out whether I wanted to set mine up or not...

 

[jeffh]

When a RO membrane first comes to pressure, there is a spike of TDS that is let through. This will be absorbed by the DI resin, but the spike is usually close to the TDS of the source water. If you are running the RO for just a gallon or less at a time, you are really just filtering with the DI....the RO isn't having any effect in that first gallon (each time the unit runs). Expensive way to filter water.

 

[grouper therapy]

A couple times a day will not hurt anything "several" times a day will shorten the membrane life supposedly and increase your chances of higher tds. I have yet to see that after 3 years of use. There are thousands of these units used for drinking water everyday so I hardly see how even several times a day would cause any problems. Nothing is fail safe 100% I guess monkeys could fly out of my rear and hold the float valve down as well which is more likely than three different devices malfunctioning on the same day
A timer on the supply solenoid
A float valve on the sump
A timer on the ro supply to the sump
The only fail safe is to pour it in manually everyday I suppose

 

[grouper therapy]

I'm confused to how people use an ro unit with a barrel or brute do you just let it fill up and then cut the supply off? Do you use a float valve to turn it off or manually do it?

 

[rbredding]

come on... THOUSANDS used for drinking water?????








more like TENS of thousands...

grouper therapy;496875 wrote: I'm confused to how people use an ro unit with a barrel or brute do you just let it fill up and then cut the supply off? Do you use a float valve to turn it off or manually do it?

I used to do it... I just let it work on filling the brute and kept an eye on it.. (it took HOURS, so it wasn't anything that was tough to watch.. )


now, I've got a different setup with a manual float valve connected to the RODI..

http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=22404&d=1266959739" alt="" />

it's got a powerhead in it, constantly moving the water to prevent any form of stagnation..

 

[grouper therapy]

Rbredding;496876 wrote: come on... THOUSANDS used for drinking water?????








more like TENS of thousands...

OK kazillions

 

[weaglereefer]

grouper therapy;496875 wrote: I'm confused to how people use an ro unit with a barrel or brute do you just let it fill up and then cut the supply off? Do you use a float valve to turn it off or manually do it?

I have a drain drilled in my tote at the top that drains out through the wall. There is a solenoid on a timer on my RKL that turns it on twice a week for a timer period I measured to be just above what's need for 3.5 days of evaporation. The water usually drains for a few minutes, but I think I waste a half gallon at most.

 

[jeffh]

I've not heard that the short cycling causes membrane problems...just that it lets the TDS through. For drinking water, I doubt anyone notices or minds that there is a TDS spike, but for our use it matters.

It's easy to see it happen, hook up an in-line TDS monitor after your membrane and before the DI. Turn the unit on and watch the TDS climb quickly and then slowly return to the normal level. Even if you didn't care about the resin cost, I still wouldn't have a pressurized source of fresh water hooked up to my tank.

 

[grouper therapy]

The pressurized storage tanks are available in many sizes so you can choose the one that suits your needs if you only evaporate 3 gallons a day then get the 3.5 and it will only cycle on once a day. the pressurized tanks only require a solenoid to turn the water off which reduces the chance of too much fresh water since you are only storing 3.5 gallons .With that said you now have a second solenoid on the supply to the ro that only lets it make water once a day and that is the 3.5 gallons. the most you could top off in a day is the 3.5 gallons noit much safer than that . I guess you can put it in a 10-50 gallon brute and hope the ATO pump doesn't stick on and wipe out your tank that is another option depending on tank size

 

[grouper therapy]

JeffH;496880 wrote: I've not heard that the short cycling causes membrane problems...just that it lets the TDS through. For drinking water, I doubt anyone notices or minds that there is a TDS spike, but for our use it matters.

It's easy to see it happen, hook up an in-line TDS monitor after your membrane and before the DI. Turn the unit on and watch the TDS climb quickly and then slowly return to the normal level. Even if you didn't care about the resin cost, I still wouldn't have a pressurized source of fresh water hooked up to my tank.

Like I said just heard that but never experienced that either. and the above post will explain a little better the system I am referring to only 3.5 gallons or whatever size tank you decide on based on evaporation of your system is all that is pressurized at any given time.

Most people don't want if they don't understand it neither would I if I did not

 

[rbredding]

I'd say anyway you set it up where there is a backup you're safe... the float valves do fail from time to time, but solenoids are only open when the power is ON to them, when the power fails or is turned off, they are closed..

solenoids are as close as you'll get to a fail safe..

 

[grouper therapy]

au01st;496879 wrote: I have a drain drilled in my tote at the top that drains out through the wall. There is a solenoid on a timer on my RKL that turns it on twice a week for a timer period I measured to be just above what's need for 3.5 days of evaporation. The water usually drains for a few minutes, but I think I waste a half gallon at most.

Is this tote tied to your topoff unit?

 

[grouper therapy]

Rbredding;496889 wrote: I'd say anyway you set it up where there is a backup you're safe... the float valves do fail from time to time, but solenoids are only open when the power is ON to them, when the power fails or is turned off, they are closed..

solenoids are as close as you'll get to a fail safe..

I agree especially with a timer used in conjunction with them.

 

[weaglereefer]

grouper therapy;496895 wrote: Is this tote tied to your topoff unit?

Yes. It's a complex system since it runs both through my kalk reactor and runs pure RO/DI. Basically it's set up so that it's A) on a timer, B) on a pH controller) and C) on a float switch. Standard top off uses kalk unless the pH spikes too high, in which case it will stop the kalk, but still top off with RO/DI.

 

[spacepony]

Ok so here's where my lack of knowledge shows....
so, basic RO/DI units are run simply by the pressure of the supply water, right? Then you can start adding things like dual inline TDS meters, and solenoids, and those will need electricity from somewhere....am I gonna have to plug this thing in? Or does it run on battery?
Next, with this in mind, I'm a little confused on how to put timers in...I'm having to assume there are special timers out there? (I think of timers as those bulky things my light are plugged into at the power strip)

 

[weaglereefer]

The TDS meter will run on a button cell battery, doesn't need to be plugged in. Solenoids will need to be plugged in to something, and I think most of us use some kind of controller like a Reefkeeper or Aquacontroller to do the timers. I have my RO/DI under the sink about 10ft away from the tank, and ran a cord and RO/DI supply line behind the dishwasher and behind the fridge to my controller and ATO setup at the tank.