I have some All for Reef that I am getting ready to start on an automated doser, but my Alk and Ca are out of whack. Ca is OK at 435, but my Alk tested at 6, and this is 2 days AFTER a 15g water change. I guess I'm going to justt dose alk until they're in line and then start start the daily tests to determine the correct AFR dose, but I'm wondering does it seem likely that Alk is so low after a water change considering Ca is OK? Maybe I have a bum tester?
Balancing Ca and Alk
- Thread starter joeyprice
- Start date
I'd also keep in mind that Alk and Ca are consumed at different levels in a reef tank. All-For-Reef supplies both at the appropriate levels for coral growth but there are other things that use Alk so you'll always be testing for and correcting for Alk. I use AFR and I view it as a stabilizer. It keep things at a reasonable level and I only have to test one a week or so and correct for Alk consumption.
I believe it was @ichthyoid who explained it to me and hopefully he'll chime in here. As a rough explanation, there are things in the reef environment that use carbon atoms that they get from the carbonate without touching the calcium. For sure there is a more elegant way of explaining it but just be aware If you se AFR and get the calcium levels stable, Alk will slowly go down. If you use it and get the Alk levels totally stable, the Ca levels will slowly go up and up. In my opinion, this doesn't mean there's not a place for AFR. It's great and keeping things more stable and really does help eliminate some testing.
I believe it was @ichthyoid who explained it to me and hopefully he'll chime in here. As a rough explanation, there are things in the reef environment that use carbon atoms that they get from the carbonate without touching the calcium. For sure there is a more elegant way of explaining it but just be aware If you se AFR and get the calcium levels stable, Alk will slowly go down. If you use it and get the Alk levels totally stable, the Ca levels will slowly go up and up. In my opinion, this doesn't mean there's not a place for AFR. It's great and keeping things more stable and really does help eliminate some testing.
There may be a more elegant way to put it, but your way made sense and I appreciate it. Do you just dose a bicarb solution in addition to the AFR for the alk?
Yes. That's exactly what I do. I have 2 systems and one of them I dose 2 part and the other AFR. I use the AFR on my display since it's kind of a "mutt" and it's got all kinds of stuff in it and the other is my frag tank. I travel a lot for work and initially I started dosing AFR because my Daughter could do it manually when I was gone to keep things a bit more stable. I like the results and hooked up a single head doser and have been using it ever since. I test for Alk 3 time per month and dose Seachem's Reef Builder (powder) accordingly. The tank has been up for 20 years and I've been known to dose Alk without testing since I've got a real good idea where things are based on past history.
So if I understand correctly AFR is not a dosing solution to replace 2 part. What I have read about it led me to believe that it was. I have some reef builder being delivered tomorrow, everything I have on hand elevates bot alk and ca, I take it this stuff is true to it's claims, doesn't move ca or mg when dosing?
AFR is a one part dosing solution. While it provides both calcium & alkalinity in a generally balanced ratio, it is good to remember that no 2 systems are exactly the same. Alkalinity is consumed by organisms & processes other than corals. Some of which consume little calcium. Hence, occasional adjustment (usually increasing alkalinity) may be required.
AFR is a bacterially driven process, which helps keep certain beneficial bacteria in a dominant role. These bacteria help drive a variety of important processes which many hobbyists may be unaware of. This happens because of the formate based carbon dosing, which also releases calcium and raises alkalinity as the bacteria consume it. Formate, having just a single carbon, also limits the growth of too much bacterial mass in this process. They have included minor & trace elements along with magnesium to help provide a complete nutritional package to the reef ecosystem.
If your goal is just to keep calcium & alkalinity balanced then you can use a 2 (or actually 3) part solution and save money.
If you desire healthy colorful corals, thriving sponges, tunicates and an overall well balanced ecosystem, then I believe AFR is the single best product currently available to help do that.
My $0.02
AFR is a bacterially driven process, which helps keep certain beneficial bacteria in a dominant role. These bacteria help drive a variety of important processes which many hobbyists may be unaware of. This happens because of the formate based carbon dosing, which also releases calcium and raises alkalinity as the bacteria consume it. Formate, having just a single carbon, also limits the growth of too much bacterial mass in this process. They have included minor & trace elements along with magnesium to help provide a complete nutritional package to the reef ecosystem.
If your goal is just to keep calcium & alkalinity balanced then you can use a 2 (or actually 3) part solution and save money.
If you desire healthy colorful corals, thriving sponges, tunicates and an overall well balanced ecosystem, then I believe AFR is the single best product currently available to help do that.
My $0.02
Last edited:
Interesting, AFR is advertised as a one-part dosing solution, but you’re saying it provides other benefits for corals? What if I’m using a calcium reactor and don’t have Calcium/Bicarbonate deficiencies? Would it still be useful somehow?
Not without reducing the output of your calcium reactor.
AFR is composed of several products made by Tropic Marin-
-CarboCalcium (calcium formate, both a calcium & organic carbon source)
-bio magnesium (proprietary form of Mag)
- A- Elements (blend of anionic elements)
- K+ Éléments (blend of cationic elements)
There may be better carbon sources, than the calcium formate used in AFR, to stimulate bacterial growth without the calcium, for your scenario.
The bicarbonate is another matter, as you could likely still use more, given the tendency of calcium reactors to reduce pH.
The bio magnesium, A- & K+ will provide minor & trace elements you still need & possibly dose for with some other product?
