Bare Bottom Tank Guys...?

[acroholic]

My 300 and 150 gallon tanks are now bare bottom. Not necessarily out of choice, but I was trying to eliminate possible causes of some coral issues I have had lately. My substrate in both tanks was really caked up, so I removed it as a possible source of the problem (dead spots).

I am having a really hard time getting over the starkness of the tanks now. I kinda like it in one way as it is rather minimalist, like an open aquascape type theme (which I have in both tanks) might be interpreted, but it looks unnatural to me, at least right now.

My question for you folks with BB reefs is do you like it, what are some downsides, what are the upsides, etc? Basically, any information or advice I could use regarding this type of setup? Effects on corals, animal life, etc? I thought I might live with it for a while to see if I like it and get used to it. I can always replace the substrate at a later date. I wanted to give a BB reef setup a fair shake.

Is the water chemistry any harder to maintain? Has anyone really seen a difference in the buffering capacity of the water without substrate? I always wondered if this was one of those anecdotal observations that somehow got twisted into gospel or not?

As usual, thanks for your help.
Dave

 

[gmpolan]

I notice a ton of detritus waste build up on the bottom and constantly have to suck it out weekly, its kind of annoying... thats my two cents worth but mines only on a frag tank tied into the main system

 

[KrisDeitz]

I love it. Like Geoff I have build up but it's better then sucking up sand.

I also get a better flow since I can really crank up my powerhead.

I enjoy the look.

 

[seth the wine guy]

Wow Dave. I never took you for a bare bottom type. You seemed to love your substrate before. I've got to think it would impact the ecological balance of the tank. So many detritus eating creatures make the substrate their home. Especially the larger size substrate such as you had.
Observations I would be interested in are the following
Is your skimmer now pulling more product since it's not being processed in the DT as much?
Does the tank look brighter now that you have removed a black substrate?
Has it allowed you to go ahead and crank up the Vortechs to a level you've always wanted but didn't b/c or the substrate?
And if so, how are your corals reacting to the increased flow?

 

[sharkbait]

I have always run BB. I have never really had any issues. There are two real issues I guess you could say that you will encounter with running BB. First, since you no longer have sand (aragonite) you will notice that your PH wont be as buffered and can swing a lot more then before. I always fixed by doing a small daily dose of Seachem PH buffer. Second you will have detritus build up and you will have left over sand particles and other particles that will accumulate at the bottom of the tank. To me that is a plus, as when I go to do a water change all of that gets sucked right up. With being able to easily suck out all excessive nutrients in the system before your sand would start to absorb them I have never had any Nitrate issues. I ALWAYS had Nitrate issues when I ran a sand bottom on all of my tanks. Even with doing massive water changes. This is what I have found in my time running BB. Dave feel free to PM about anything I said or if you have any other questions about running BB.

 

[hammcd]

gmpolan;672035 wrote: I notice a ton of detritus waste build up on the bottom and constantly have to suck it out weekly, its kind of annoying... thats my two cents worth but mines only on a frag tank tied into the main system

yeah this is the biggest downside that ive heard of...kinda annoying when u want it to be such a clean look..kinda like having my cat shed all over my new couch

 

[glxtrix]

Better to have the detritus where you can see it and remove it than it being in your tank stuck in the sand. BB is VERY easy, if you maintain proper husbandry. Good sporadic flow, and strong skimming. That all you really need. Like any setup, it takes some tweaking to get it right. Amino acids are fun to play with once things are established. I'm considering going back to BB, gotta love the look of sand, but to me, BB was much easier to work with.

 

[darcurr]

PFCDeitz;672037 wrote:
I also get a better flow since I can really crank up my powerhead.

I enjoy the look.

+1
My vortec is at half due to sand storms. Bare bottom has crossed my mind..

 

[smallblock]

I just don't like the look at all, I don't have nitrate issues and have sand. I kinda stir up my sand at WC time and it doesnt ever look dirty or get too dirty. Never done the BB Dave I just think it looks terrible. Also I like sand sifting fish like Gobies and invets like conchs. It just looks more natural to me. Like an ecosystem instead of a glass box with rock we threw in there.

 

[acroholic]

Smallblock;672209 wrote: I just don't like the look at all, I don't have nitrate issues and have sand. I kinda stir up my sand at WC time and it doesnt ever look dirty or get too dirty. Never done the BB Dave I just think it looks terrible. Also I like sand sifting fish like Gobies and invets like conchs. It just looks more natural to me. Like an ecosystem instead of a glass box with rock we threw in there.

Yea, I kinda feel the same way right now as well, but I'm gonna keep it as is for a while to give it a fair shot. It is easy enough to add substrate back into a tank. The bear is removing it.

One thing is, on my 300 with 2x Vortech MP60 and 2X MP40, Nutrient Transport Mode is interesting with no substrate.

 

[mvm]

Acroholic;672232 wrote: Yea, I kinda feel the same way right now as well, but I'm gonna keep it as is for a while to give it a fair shot. It is easy enough to add substrate back into a tank. The bear is removing it.

One thing is, on my 300 with 2x Vortech MP60 and 2X MP40, Nutrient Transport Mode is interesting with no substrate.

Wow. I bet you could blow the tissue right off the corals with those things cranked up.
As you know, I've ran BB most of the time. The look takes a while to get accustomed to. I have starboard on mine now and think it's a little easier on the eyes. As other stated, you'll have detritus build up in some areas, not matter how much flow you have. I always found it pretty gratifying sucking it all out during water changes; better in the sewer than in my tank..
You will notice a slightly higher PH swing, also mentioned. You can offset that by adding a dosing pump that doses alk at night. I have never been able to get the colors I get on my corals with substrate.
I know that you are on top of your chemistry from a maintenance standpoint; that is key. If you neglect a BB tank-because of the lack of buffering capacity-it can crash quickly. It happened to me on my last tank after baby #2 arrived. In my current tank, I tried substrate but could never get the coral coloration I was accustomed to. A few months after the substrate was removed, the colors started to "pop" again. Good luck.

 

[falos]

i had bb for a wile only problem i had was alge on the botom glass and a very low pod population. now i have rock ruble botom in my sps tank i grow my incrusting montys

 

[ralph atl]

IMHO, I think it looks like crap...however, if u have a sandbed you must maintain it..even if it's just 3 inches..

I always replenish sand bed creatures like Super Tongan Nassarius, regular nassarius, and vacuum up and replace some sand on occasion. I also have wrasses that dive bomb in it. I'll Also take a net a pull some up to replace once a month....

 

[seth the wine guy]

Smallblock;672209 wrote: I just don't like the look at all, I don't have nitrate issues and have sand. I kinda stir up my sand at WC time and it doesnt ever look dirty or get too dirty. Never done the BB Dave I just think it looks terrible. Also I like sand sifting fish like Gobies and invets like conchs. It just looks more natural to me. Like an ecosystem instead of a glass box with rock we threw in there.

mysterybox;672293 wrote: IMHO, I think it looks like crap...however, if u have a sandbed you must maintain it..even if it's just 3 inches..

+1
BB to me looks as fake and unnatural as the plastic plants and corals sold at Petsmart.

 

[acroholic]

Seth The Wine Guy;672039 wrote: Wow Dave. I never took you for a bare bottom type. You seemed to love your substrate before. I've got to think it would impact the ecological balance of the tank. So many detritus eating creatures make the substrate their home. Especially the larger size substrate such as you had.
Observations I would be interested in are the following
Is your skimmer now pulling more product since it's not being processed in the DT as much?
Does the tank look brighter now that you have removed a black substrate?
Has it allowed you to go ahead and crank up the Vortechs to a level you've always wanted but didn't b/c or the substrate?
And if so, how are your corals reacting to the increased flow?

I have to live with it for a while before I can comment with any experience on a couple of these questions, but the tank does not seem any brighter to me, personally. It does seem deeper and larger, even though the substrate was only 2-3" thick. I think the glass bottom adds the appearance of more depth to the tank itself (mirror effect maybe?), in addition to there being more visible LR to see.

The Vortech power level hasn't changed because I didn't have a problem with full power because the substrate was solid anyways, so it couldn't blow around if it wanted to. Now, if I replace the substrate, there might be an issue.

 

[seth the wine guy]

Acroholic;672310 wrote: I have to live with it for a while before I can comment with any experience on a couple of these questions, but the tank does not seem any brighter to me, personally.

Come to think of it, people who have posted comments on how bright or dark the appearance of the tank were ones who actually HAD substrate. White substrate vs black substrate debates.
Makes the tank look bigger huh? Not a bad thing.

 

[hammcd]

would UV sterlizing be even more of an asset in bare bottoms?

 

[snowmansnow]

hey dave. I have removed about 50% of my sand bed due to some sps problems as well.

When I did that my pumps blew about half the tank BB haha...

now, I can't speak to the advantages / disadvantages of it...

but I can say that the BB section was covered reasonably quickly with coraline and other stuff so that It wasn't as bleak looking.

Another accidental thing that happened is that some zoas started covering it....

B

 

[legalreefer]

Could you put the sand in the sump without light and have the same effect as being in the dt?