Best Macro for nutrient uptake?

[derek_s]

I have been wanting to add another macro in with my mangroves that will more quickly uptake nutrients from the water. I have cheato in my sump refuge, but I still have teh external fuge to work with.

I need something that will grow under 100W CFL light bulgs (work lights) and that is not overly invasive to the system. It will be in a remote fuge with a strainer, but I know how that stuff can travel.

I have been thinking a type of calurpera might be good, but I'm not sure if that is true and what type. I have tangs, but I dont want it to get in the DT and out of hand.. Otherwise, I could just have more cheato in the other fuge, if that is best.

 

[jetchris]

I have heard that mangroves do NOT export nutrients as well as they are beleived to be. Cheato works good and so does a deep sand bed.

 

[glxtrix]

If you properly utilize chaeto (tumble method) it'll do wonders. And I second the whole mangrove thing that Chris said. They will work, but you need lots and they need to be much larger than what we keep with our tanks......they sure are pretty though

 

[ralph atl]

cheato or move to carbon dosing like VSV.

 

[schwaggs]

Derek_S;291880 wrote: It will be in a remote fuge with a strainer...

If you strain the output, all microfauna and macrofauna will be blocked from getting to your display as well. Isn't that the other half of the purpose of a refugium? I suggest introducing only items that would be consumed by the inhabitants of your display if (when) they migrate to your display. You wouldn't introduce flatworms or aptaisia into your refugium unless you had animals in the display that needed to feed off those items, would you? I think the same applies to algea.

 

[stacy22]

Isn't your refugium also a display tank in a way?

 

[derek_s]

JetChris;291899 wrote: I have heard that mangroves do NOT export nutrients as well as they are beleived to be. Cheato works good and so does a deep sand bed.

I believe this is true now. Mine are growing really quickly, but my nitrates were about 25. So I did a test, and unhooked the fuge from the display, so it was a stand alone tank. I used a heater and powerhead to simulate the conditions it had priod. After a week, the nitrates hadnt dropped a bit, and I was not adding any additional food or anything. SO< I determined that what the mangroves were removing must be negligible.

glxtrix;291903 wrote: If you properly utilize chaeto (tumble method) it'll do wonders. And I second the whole mangrove thing that Chris said. They will work, but you need lots and they need to be much larger than what we keep with our tanks......they sure are pretty though

Yeah, I have hte cheato, but had no luck tumbling it. THe shape of my fuges just dont lend themselves to it. I wish I could though. So for now I am turning it manually every couple days.

mysterybox;291951 wrote: cheato or move to carbon dosing like VSV.

I do carbon dose, and I am at 3ml (not .3) so I have determined that is too much. SOmething else has to happen, so I am increasing NO uptake through fuge plants to see if it helps. I have already looked for the NO3 problem, but that is another thread alltogether.

Schwaggs;291964 wrote: If you strain the output, all microfauna and macrofauna will be blocked from getting to your display as well. Isn't that the other half of the purpose of a refugium? I suggest introducing only items that would be consumed by the inhabitants of your display if (when) they migrate to your display. You wouldn't introduce flatworms or aptaisia into your refugium unless you had animals in the display that needed to feed off those items, would you? I think the same applies to algea.

Yes and no. The primary purpose this fuge is for nutrient uptake, so I really dont care for things leaving it to the DT. Plus, it is only a strainer, so anything that will fit through a ~2-3mm slot will get through. Pods, plant spores, etc... I thought calurpera may be ok since I have tangs and I'm sure theyd eat it, but I really dont want too many issues.

stacy22;291983 wrote: Isn't your refugium also a display tank in a way?

Yes, thus the calurpera was also considered because I find it more asthetically attractive than cheato. Especially the feather caulerpa, which isnt too great at NO absorbtion according to Melev.

 

[derek_s]

I would like something the tangs would eat. THey seem to eat cheato whenever it is around, but I cant imagine it is that healthy. When they poop, it looks just like it did when they ate it.

 

[crew]

feed them some of the losers we go to school with, thats a win win for everyone

 

[ryanh487]

Cualerpa taxifolia</em> grows about 1.5" a day and is not known to reproduce sexually. Tangs usually eat it pretty well, too. Only downside is that a small piece could get into the display and go nuts. but i've got the same problem with pieces of chaeto in my tank anyway, so really any macro is going to have that risk.

 

[soarin']

ryanh487;292139 wrote: Cualerpa taxifolia</em> grows about 1.5" a day and is not known to reproduce sexually. Tangs usually eat it pretty well, too. Only downside is that a small piece could get into the display and go nuts. but i've got the same problem with pieces of chaeto in my tank anyway, so really any macro is going to have that risk.

Oh no -- that's not the only downside. There are two more:

1) Caulerpa tends to "hold fast" to rocks and corals. Once it gets into the display (which it will) it grows around and through and into your corals, making it very difficult to get out of your display. Chaeto you just grab and get rid of. It might tangle a bit on something, but it doesn't actively grow into your corals and rocks and hang on for dear life, breaking and leaving pieces behind rather than letting go. And those pieces left behind WILL regenerate.

2) Once you get Caulerpa into your tank, it is the guest that will NEVER leave.

I am not kidding about this one. One of my tanks came with grape caulerpa in the fuge, which I replaced after six months with chaeto. I had heard that once you get it into your tank you can't get it out, but I didn't believe that -- I figured if you just keep on pulling it out, you can eventually win.

That is not true. It leaves little spores around that seem to be dormant as long as you have plenty of caulerpa in the fuge, but when you get rid of the fuge caulerpa that's when the "life and death battle" starts. Any extra nutrients around, and it takes off, and this stuff does not give up, ever.

I now have two kinds of caulerpa that I am fighting -- the grape caulerpa and the feather stuff. The feather stuff hasn't really gotten beyond two places in my tank, because I am determined not to let it get rooted in my tank, but no matter how perfectly I try to get rid of it, it always grows back in those places. One of them is in the middle of a field of GSP that seems healthy, but there is some tiny but of feather caulerpa that keeps growing there. It must have gotten in on some frag or something, but it's not leaving either.

The real pain is that the caulerpa gets such a STRONG hold on your rocks that you have to scrub them to get it all off. Picking with tweezers does not work -- it just breaks off and leaves pieces behind.

The caulerpa will outcompete your chaeto, too. It's in a tank that I am not feeding, because everything in it just lives off the light, but the caulerpa grows inches a day -- INCHES, and the chaeto is bleaching out.

I keep trying to pick out the caulerpa, but it keeps growing back, and loves to grow behind rocks where you can't get at it, and send runners out that grow into and around everything you love and hold dear.

I had the stuff in the fuge for 6 months, and as long as it thinks that you want to love it and keep it, it behaves very well. But when it realizes that you want to get rid of it, that's when the life and death battle starts.

Majanos and Aiptasia have nothing on this stuff.

Edit: Do I sound frustrated?

Chaeto's nothing -- I went away for 10 days and came back to chaeto growing into my display tank. It got tangled with stuff, sure, but it was nothing to get out.

 

[ryanh487]

Soarin';292146 wrote: Oh no -- that's not the only downside. There are two more:

1) Caulerpa tends to "hold fast" to rocks and corals. Once it gets into the display (which it will) it grows around and through and into your corals, making it very difficult to get out of your display. Chaeto you just grab and get rid of. It might tangle a bit on something, but it doesn't actively grow into your corals and rocks and hang on for dear life, breaking and leaving pieces behind rather than letting go. And those pieces left behind WILL regenerate.
I have chaeto that is constantly growing out a rock in my tank, can't get rid of it.

2) Once you get Caulerpa into your tank, it is the guest that will NEVER leave.

I am not kidding about this one. One of my tanks came with grape caulerpa in the fuge, which I replaced after six months with chaeto. I had heard that once you get it into your tank you can't get it out, but I didn't believe that -- I figured if you just keep on pulling it out, you can eventually win.

That is not true. It leaves little spores around that seem to be dormant as long as you have plenty of caulerpa in the fuge, but when you get rid of the fuge caulerpa that's when the "life and death battle" starts. Any extra nutrients around, and it takes off, and this stuff does not give up, ever.

I now have two kinds of caulerpa that I am fighting -- the grape caulerpa and the feather stuff. The feather stuff hasn't really gotten beyond two places in my tank, because I am determined not to let it get rooted in my tank, but no matter how perfectly I try to get rid of it, it always grows back in those places. One of them is in the middle of a field of GSP that seems healthy, but there is some tiny but of feather caulerpa that keeps growing there. It must have gotten in on some frag or something, but it's not leaving either.

The real pain is that the caulerpa gets such a STRONG hold on your rocks that you have to scrub them to get it all off. Picking with tweezers does not work -- it just breaks off and leaves pieces behind.

The caulerpa will outcompete your chaeto, too. It's in a tank that I am not feeding, because everything in it just lives off the light, but the caulerpa grows inches a day -- INCHES, and the chaeto is bleaching out.

I keep trying to pick out the caulerpa, but it keeps growing back, and loves to grow behind rocks where you can't get at it, and send runners out that grow into and around everything you love and hold dear.

I had the stuff in the fuge for 6 months, and as long as it thinks that you want to love it and keep it, it behaves very well. But when it realizes that you want to get rid of it, that's when the life and death battle starts.

Majanos and Aiptasia have nothing on this stuff.

Chaeto's nothing -- I went away for 10 days and came back to chaeto growing into my display tank. It got tangled with stuff, sure, but it was nothing to get out.

and most cualerpa leaves little spores because it reproduces sexually. c. taxifolia </em>DOES NOT reproduce sexually, and will not release little spores.

"reproduces by fragmentation; sexual reproduction has not been observed"
http://aquat1.ifas.ufl.edu/node/89">http://aquat1.ifas.ufl.edu/node/89</a>

though apparently it is seasonally toxic and not readily eaten by most fish, though i had some in my tank that my flame angel ate whenever it grew tall enough to be eaten.

basically: any macro has a risk of fragmenting and invading your display. [I]C. taxifolia </em>will at least not reproduce sexually, and also has low light requirements and a rapid growth/nutrient uptake rate.

if i had to put cualerpa in a refugium, it would be [I]C. taxifolia.</em>

 

[soarin']

andregarcia_73;292148 wrote: What do you mean tumble method?

7 -

One of the ways to get Chaeto to grow the fastest is to direct flow to it such that it "tumbles" around, exposing all surfaces to light equally.

Another way to get it to grow faster is to put lights on it 24/7 -- I think that gets it to grow 12% faster IIRC