Care for open brains and clams?

[twistoflime]

What are the requirments/care for open brains?
What are the requirments/ care for clams?
I'm new to the hobby so I don't know much about corals. I know alot about softies though. I have MH so almost all corals and stuff should do well in my tank... right?

 

[jmaneyapanda]

do some good research before you buy anything. clams need HUGE light and clacium and alk supplements ferquently (they use it iup like mad). The open brains are a little less light needy, and usually thrive if fed meaty foods. That is a very simple overview. Go to wetwebmedia.com, and there should be a good primer for them.

 

[george]

Definitely want to do as much research as you can. http://reefkeeping.com/search/search.php">Reefkeeping Magazine</a> is an excellent source of information. Search for clams and start reading. There are lots of related articles on lighting.

Not all clams require extremely high levels of light and unless you're wanting them to grow as fast as possible, none of them *have* to have lighting any more intense than stony corals.

How suitable your tank is for clams is determined by four things combined:

1. The size/shape of your tank.
2. The type and relative intensity of lighting.
3. Where you want to place the clam in the tank.
4. The species of clam you'd like to keep.

Variations in those parameters can allow for lighting from power compact up to the most intense metal halide around.

So what wattage is your MH bulb and where do you have it over your 30g tank? Is this a 30g rectangular tank? Cube?

After that, you must dose calcium (or do plenty of water changes with a salt mix that has a good calcium level) to maintain good calcium levels.

Open brain corals are a medium light level coral. It requires calcium dosing as well, but unless you have a really intense MH fixture, you probably have the right lighting already.

 

[twistoflime]

George;218662 wrote: So what wattage is your MH bulb and where do you have it over your 30g tank? Is this a 30g rectangular tank? Cube?

I have a 150w mh that is over the center of my tank. My tank is rectangular.

 

[george]

I don't see why you would have a problem with a clam, other than possibly the RBTA stining it if they get close enough.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

George;218662 wrote:

Not all clams require extremely high levels of light and unless you're wanting them to grow as fast as possible, none of them *have* to have lighting any more intense than stony corals.

.

Well, I would disagree with that. At least for tridacnids. Certain clam can tolerate low lighting, but being they never photosaturate, the more light, the better they do. I guess what you're saying is true if your looking to just get by, but thats not the best way to operate, IMO.

 

[george]

jmaneyapanda;218773 wrote: Well, I would disagree with that. At least for tridacnids. Certain clam can tolerate low lighting, but being they never photosaturate, the more light, the better they do. I guess what you're saying is true if your looking to just get by, but thats not the best way to operate, IMO.

A 150 MH over a standard 30g tank is plenty intense, assuming there's a spread to the reflector. He could certainly do better with a 250 if he wants to spread maximas and croceas over the tank, but 150 is more than enough to light up a squamosa or derasa just fine and, with propper placement, a maxima or crocea. A 150w MH over a 16" deep tank is hardly "low lighting". I would't put the clam in the back corner, but then presumably you don't drop all that $$$ to hide it.

Somewhere along the line, much like all lighting opinions in current reefkeeping thinking, the notion became that only the most intense lighting is suitable for keeping clams well and successfully. It's simply not true. The fact that croceas are found in water bordering on tidal flats doesn't mean it's the only environment in which they can survive.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

George;218778 wrote:

Somewhere along the line, much like all lighting opinions in current reefkeeping thinking, the notion became that only the most intense lighting is suitable for keeping clams well and successfully. It's simply not true. The fact that croceas are found in water bordering on tidal flats doesn't mean it's the only environment in which they can survive.

agreed, but it is quite excessively proven that they will do better in stronger light. No speculation to that. So, can a clam be kept under a 150 in a 30 gallon- sure, and it will porbably do just fine. Under the same conditions with a 250 watter, would it do better- yes, and it has been quite scientifically shown to be biologically so.

Overall, I am not trying to be argumentative. It is simply a VERY common misconception that lighting for tridacnids can be "replaced" by phyto, etc etc, and that intense lighting isnt top consideration. It is. Clams cannot live without suitable light, so I feel it may be percieved improperly to state that clams do not need intense lighting. You last sentence above intrigues me. You're correct, its not the only environment. But it absolutely is the best. And why anyone would seek to eek by and keep things suboptimally is beyond my understand and advice. Just my two cents.

 

[george]

jmaneyapanda;218785 wrote: agreed, but it is quite excessively proven that they will do better in stronger light.

Totally agreed. I didn't mean to imply that a bigger light wouldn't be good. Just that it's not required. Especially for Derasa and Squamosa clams which do well under PC lighting of sufficient intensity (and T5, though I have no experience with them under T5). I got the impression he didn't want to buy a new light.

 

[jcusmarine]

FYI, I have a Golden Teardrop Maxima and a Crocea Clam, with a Yellow Open Channel Brain under PC lighting. I do have 9.5 watts of light per gallon. It can be done without Halide/HWI/T5. But your Halide lighting will be optimal for Clams/Brains and SPS.

However, being new to the hobby, I would hold off and let your tank mature and spend a little more time learning and getting used to maintaining water parameters with a focus on Calc/Alk so you be confident that Clams and other hard to keep corals will survive.

A Clam would be a great addition to your tank when you are ready. In a 30 gallon I would go with a Crocea, as it is smaller.

Best of luck.

 

[jcusmarine]

I am fully aware of what PAR is thank you. I do not have HQI or Halide PAR, but have been keeping Reef tanks for 8 years although no expert. Apprecaite your ignorant advice. I think your comments are inapropriate for the thread. Twistofflame asked for advice, and we can all share our experience, many with different results and opinions. Also, watts per gallon does mean something more than JACK, but you seemed to think I was substituting watts per gallon for PAR, which I was not....I was simply trying to use my experience to put her/him at ease that her lighting would be sufficient.

My Clams and SPS are thriving with proper placement. They will continue to do so.

What you are correct about is that PC's are not optimal for Clams and SPS for the most part, as they do not grow as fast as they would with higher PAR from HQI/Halide/T5 or LED's.

 

[jcusmarine]

You are abosultely correct in regards to the science of light intensity Dawgdude - way to go

:doh:

I have 4 x 130 watt PC's and happy Clams. What I have to be careful of is changing PC's frequently enough to maintain as best PAR as I can with PC's. There is always a risk that Clams will die over time due to improper lighting, and that death can be slow. I simply have not had that problem and know enough (not everything), but enough to successfully maintain Clams under PC lighting.

Why would you say you do not want to debate, after posting like you have done? You just want to spout off and not listen to other peoples opinions. I am more than okay with being proven wrong sometimes....and the other members that you mentioned, I respect their opinion.

Furthermore - In consideration of Reef lighting we look at PAR, Kelvin rating, Spectrum (Namometer Range), LUX, Lumens and Watts. You have to choose lighting that suits your tanks needs - I have made my choice.

 

[johnr2604]

You guys are too funny. Although what charlie is saying is correct I would not have said WPG dosn't mean jack because it does come off the wrong way. WPG can be a good basis for a novice to go off of when Par readings are not available. A PAR meater is pretty expensive and its next to impossible to get your hands on the club meters these days.

 

[soarin']

One of the reasons the "watts per gallon" rule is a little outdated is the realization that PC bulbs are too large to be able to reflect the half of the light that points upward back down again. So basically half your watts never reach the tank at all if you are using PC bulbs. That's there is always the recommendation against them -- not because they are fluorescent (T5's are as well). Then you start dealing with the other issues (yellowing of the water, bulb age (as dawgdude pointed out)) etc.

MH and T5 are small enough sources of light that you can reflect the upward-directed light back down into the tank, so that most of your light actually gets directed toward into the tank.

Even then, the quality of the reflector can make a big difference. Apparently the lumenbright reflectors can dramatically increase the PAR going into your tank.

Now about open brains:

Open brains like to eat smaller foods -- chop up whatever you are going to feed it. When you see the tentacles come out when it's eating, notice how small they are -- that's because they are used to catching small things. When I fed it larger pieces, it would take a really long time to eat it, and then it threw up later what it couldn't digest so that the food wouldn't start to rot inside it.

My red/pink open brain has been happiest ever since I added a remora hob skimmer right above it. The return water from the skimmer pushes the 'pods down at it, and you can all kinds of tiny tentacles out at night, and it has really grown since I did that -- before it was shrinking b/c I didn't feed it a lot.


I have been reading up on the posts about clams, because I am getting ready to get some -- some people are saying that they have more crocea clams die on them than maxima, and maximas in turn are less hardy than the lower-light needing clams. For the clams with higher light requirements, giving them extra light may give them extra energy to help them through rough spots. However, I have no experience with clams and will defer to the wiser heads here.

 

[johnr2604]

dawgdude;219136 wrote: John, Compare your 70w halide to my 96w PC. I have more watts per gallon....however your nano would win in coral growth and keeping things alive. I have done ALOT of research on lighting and the worse thing for someone to learn is that the amount of watts of light you are putting over a tank is really useless in all honesty. Its horrible advice for a newbie.

Well I agree with you and have done PAR readings on my tanks If you use whats per gallon you do have to research what type of lights produce better PAR. All I'm saying is that 15 years ago when I started keeping reefs WPG is all we really had to go by and it worked OK. Definetly not optimal but OK as long as you educated yourself. Something to think about though is typically when most people buy a fixture they buy one based on wattage and the type bulbs without knowing what kind of Par it is going to create in thier reef environment. This is why its hard to get the club Par meters. Thier are alot of people out there that have successful reefs and have no idea what thier Par is.

 

[jcusmarine]

dawgdude;219141 wrote: Very true, however there have been some huge strides in the past 5-10 years in lighting and our understanding of it. The issue lies in that someone hears you need X number of watts per gallon and then isnt taught how much more complex it is....there is a huge issue and people just rely on watts per gallon. Also it goes back to the whole issue that light output is not based on watts really since bulbs degrade.

Agreed. The half life on PC's are said to be 6-9 months. I won't go past 6 months for fear of loosing spectrum and PAR. I have no clue how HQI or Halide bulbs degrade over time. I just never went that route.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

jcusmarine;219132 wrote:
I have 4 x 130 watt PC's and happy Clams. What I have to be careful of is changing PC's frequently enough to maintain as best PAR as I can with PC's. There is always a risk that Clams will die over time due to improper lighting, and that death can be slow. I simply have not had that problem and know enough (not everything), but enough to successfully maintain Clams under PC lighting..

In efforts to get back on toipic, I must admit it is poor advise to say that clams, especially croceas, can be maintained under pcs. In my experience and research, they simply do not put out enough light intensity to allow proper photosynthesis. Jcusmarine- how long have you had your clam under these lights? There are always exceptions, and people who "get lucky" with a hardy clam, and you may be one of them, but far and away, in 99.9% of the time, the clam will die within 6 months or so due to inadequate lighting.

Watts per gallon is a term which has overstayed its welcome in this hobby, in my opinion. Here is another way to look at it. I can have a 400 watt MH over a ten gallon, and have a clam 5" under the water directly under the MH. That is 40 WPG. I can also have a 400 watt over a 4090 gallon, with a clam 5" under the light again. That is 1 WPG. But in both cases, the clam is getting the exact same amount of light. Hence, this measuer is no longer useful. Perghaps back when lighting wasnt as technological as it is now, the term had more value. But, I would argue it is only misleading today.

You can keep clams under candlelight, provided you have enough of them to provide proper intensity. That is the key, not source or WPG, but light intensity.

FWIW, please keep this thread on topic, as any mopre scuffles on non-topic issues will cause it to be moved or otherwise.

 

[jcusmarine]

Ditto