Carpentry Question-AKA Grouper Therapy

[mockery]

So I'm building the stand structure with my friend for his 40 breeder. We are trying to decide which is the best way to joint the corners. Best as in weight distribution/strength.

Option A

alt="" />

alt="" />

Option B

alt="" />

alt="" />

Thanks for any advice.
Colin

 

[cjsparky]

Im voting for option A, but I know this is a Grouper specific question.

In reality, both methods should be fine, and option b would probably handle a small side load better, but with weight bearing being straight down, I vote A.

Edit: On a side note, if you don't miter the corners, and use a Kreg Jig (I think I spelled it right) and stagger the seam with option A...may be better than the mitered option...

CJ

 

[mockery]

Cjsparky;715304 wrote: Im voting for option A, but I know this is a Grouper specific question.

In reality, both methods should be fine, and option b would probably handle a small side load better, but with weight bearing being straight down, I vote A.

Edit: On a side note, if you don't miter the corners, and use a Kreg Jig (I think I spelled it right) and stagger the seam with option A...may be better than the mitered option...

CJ

All opinions welcome.

Would A or B be able to handle more weight? The stand is going to be a little over sized but I don't think that will matter.

 

[cjsparky]

My GUESS is A...but this is a 40 breeder and 4 vertical 2x4's could hold up a car...

Edit: The reason I say A is depending on the grain of the wood, that corner piece in B...the piece sticking out COULD eventually just fall off. COULD...

 

[grouper therapy]

Is this the structual portion or is it the finished product as well? Will the 2x material be seen when the stand is 100% finished?

Edit: Properly fitted glued and screwed option B has the advantage over A in strength of the joint Neither has an advantage over the other in the amount of weight it will hold if kept vertically. Is there some kind of bracing being used to prevent movement left to right?

 

[mockery]

grouper therapy;715348 wrote: Is this the structual portion or is it the finished product as well? Will the 2x material be seen when the stand is 100% finished?

Edit: Properly fitted glued and screwed option B has the advantage over A in strength of the joint Neither has an advantage over the other in the amount of weight it will hold if kept vertically. Is there some kind of bracing being used to prevent movement left to right?

It is the structural portion and it won't be seen once skinned.

It is a rectangle with middle supports.

 

[cjsparky]

Just curious...do you WANT the middle supports or is it just for strength?

 

[mockery]

Cjsparky;715360 wrote: Just curious...do you WANT the middle supports or is it just for strength?

Rather over build it then under built a stand personally.

 

[cjsparky]

Mockery;715363 wrote: Rather over build it then under built a stand personally.

Totally understand. I have a feeling that Grouper is going to tell you that once skinned, 4 2x4's and skinned IS overbuilt, and the center braces will only serve to get in the way...

 

[grouper therapy]

Quite honestly I think you would have a stronger stand to just use 3/4 plywood. I would put it together with pocket screw.You can buy the simple Kreg jig at Lowes for under $30. If you are going to skin over what you have then forgo the more labor intensive option a and go with option B .

Edit:

Totally understand. I have a feeling that Grouper is going to tell you that once skinned, 4 2x4's and skinned IS overbuilt, and the center braces will only serve to get in the way...[/QUOT
Correct :thumbs:assuming you have something at the top middle to prevent the stand from spreading apart not really to carry a load.

 

[cjsparky]

grouper therapy;715384 wrote: QIf you are going to skin over what you have then forgo the more labor intensive option a and go with option B .

Isn't option B the more labor intensive of the 2?

 

[mockery]

I should be a little clearer. The cabinet is going to be fairly oversized. As in almost 60 long by 24 due to where he wants to place it, necessary storage, upgrade potential, anything smaller in the area would have been out of place.

 

[cjsparky]

Mockery;715389 wrote: I should be a little clearer. The cabinet is going to be fairly oversized. As in almost 60 long by 24 due to where he wants to place it, necessary storage, upgrade potential, anything smaller in the area would have been out of place.

Ahh! A bit differing advice for me then...

Top needs to be braced with horizontal 2x4's from front to back, so the ply skinning on the top does not bow. Bracing on each side where the tank dimensions, and one center brace on the top will suffice. I still stand by once the stand is skinned, that the center vertical brace is unnecessary in the front, as the plywood skin will substantially add rigidity to the structure. IF the back is to be left open, then I WOULD put a vertical brace in the center of the stand...front skinned even cut for doors should be rock solid

CJ

 

[grouper therapy]

Cjsparky;715387 wrote: Isn't option B the more labor intensive of the 2?

Absolutely you are correct I mixed the two. My bad

Edit:

Cjsparky;715392 wrote: Ahh! A bit differing advice for me then...

Top needs to be braced with horizontal 2x4's from front to back, so the ply skinning on the top does not bow. Bracing on each side where the tank dimensions, and one center brace on the top will suffice. I still stand by once the stand is skinned, that the center vertical brace is unnecessary in the front, as the plywood skin will substantially add rigidity to the structure. IF the back is to be left open, then I WOULD put a vertical brace in the center of the stand...front skinned even cut for doors should be rock solid

CJ

Correct. dead on

 

[mockery]

So here's some sketch up drawing. We are debating on which way to orient the front 2x4.

Front

alt="" />

Back

alt="" />

Thanks both to CJ and Grouper

 

[grouper therapy]

E-mail me the file

 

[cjsparky]

2 things...

On the top braces...you want this thing to be a strong as possible, so I would put 3 cross braces...2 at the edges of the proposed tank, and one in the center.

On the front vertical 2x4's, I would personally turn them 90 degrees so that the flats are facing front to back. This is for 2 reasons.

1 - The front corners of the tank are the most likely to experience a side load, so this gives added stability.

2 - More real estate to sink anchors and glue the front skin plywood to the structure.

The back 2 2x4's I would leave as is.

Again, The sketch-up as is is probably fine, but you want it bulletproof, so that is my advice. Sounds like grouper is going to adjust the sketch for you a bit. Ins't this club awesome?

One last thought. Floor, what is your plan here? May want to build the floor box, square it up, top it with plywood, and THEN build the rest of the stand on top. This saves you from making cuts to "piece" the plywood into position and tabbing cuts to go around 2x4's, and gives your vertical supports added strength in fastening them to the floor. make sense?

All you have to do is trim the width of the plywood floor off the 5 vertical beams to get the desired finish height.

CJ

Edit: Also, the frame will be a tad flimsy until it is skinned, so take extra care in making sure the plywood for the floor, top, and sides are perfectly square when cutting. This way the frame can be slightly racked when glueing and nailing or screwing the skin to the frame to make the resulting stand square. On the stand I built for my 125G, I used liquid nails and a caulk gun and screwed the skin down on the top and bottom, and used a finishing nail gun for the sides. That way the trim pieces I picked covered the anchors for a finished look. the trim I just used brads to tack on.