Chalice Coloring

[SWATLTank]

Do the beautiful chalice of amazing coloring grow in the wild? I have been trying to find pics of them in their natural environment, but have been unsuccessful.

Are the chalice just home grown mash-ups? Just curious. Thinking about buying 1 or 2 frags and would just like to confirm whether these are just the result of people like Jason Foxx and Cornbred breeders. Kinda like freshwater fish that have had dye injected. (Yes, I know these corals have not been injected with dye. Just making a comparison)

 

[jcook54]

Man, this is a can of worms. In my experience, most corals in the wild are a fairly bland color. We put them in our systems, blast them with intense light at a specific spectrum, nutrients and all kinds of other stuff and get the maximum color out of them. Used to be people would get wild colonies and it was always a waiting game to see what they might turn into. The colors were there but growers would really bring them out. This still goes on but most of the "name brand" corals have been in captivity for a while and have been selected for their look.

 

[SWATLTank]

So, I was thinking and thinking and thinking about whether I should invest in one or two of the beautiful chalices I have only seen for sale online and never on a J Cousteau special. LoL

Not sure why it matters and caused me so much deliberation. I kept wondering, Is this like buying fake Nike and Coach or is it more like being lab simulated diamonds and hybrid roses in purple or popsicle colors.

I guess at the end of the day, each offers its owner some value. In this specific instance, no Chalices were hurt (assuming) in the creation of the psychedelic coloring.*

Maybe when I first realized my disappointment of them not 'being real', I felt they were less authentic. Not even talking about the money the cost. More about the fact that I got into the hobby because I liked the idea of being able to have some of the amazing ocean animals right in my living room.

Maybe I'll see something on Feb 23rd.

*Someone actually told me that the methods used by this 'scientist' is very stressful on the animal. Technique is to force all zooanthelle out of the coral and through a lot of trial and error get them to re-assimilate with hope that it creates something very beautiful and more original.

 

[ActiveAngel]

So, I was thinking and thinking and thinking about whether I should invest in one or two of the beautiful chalices I have only seen for sale online and never on a J Cousteau special. LoL

Not sure why it matters and caused me so much deliberation. I kept wondering, Is this like buying fake Nike and Coach or is it more like being lab simulated diamonds and hybrid roses in purple or popsicle colors.

I guess at the end of the day, each offers its owner some value. In this specific instance, no Chalices were hurt (assuming) in the creation of the psychedelic coloring.*

Maybe when I first realized my disappointment of them not 'being real', I felt they were less authentic. Not even talking about the money the cost. More about the fact that I got into the hobby because I liked the idea of being able to have some of the amazing ocean animals right in my living room.

Maybe I'll see something on Feb 23rd.

*Someone actually told me that the methods used by this 'scientist' is very stressful on the animal. Technique is to force all zooanthelle out of the coral and through a lot of trial and error get them to re-assimilate with hope that it creates something very beautiful and more original.

I have heard the arguments that these techniques are very stressful to bring out the colors. But as a scientist, I have never seen any evidence as such. More so, I have never heard logic that I believed support this either. To me, these are simply sensationalist news stories, and not necessarily true by any measure. That said, I’m open minded towards evidence, and want my animals to do best.

Corals are not necessarily ‘forced’ to have color expressed. There are many ways in which this sentence is wrong, but I don’t have a ton of time to do all of them.

When you are diving, what colors do the corals ‘mostly look’? Brown, right. Well, for one, we just addressed it: “mostly”. Not all corals appear quite so brown in nature. This statement is especially true in the Gulf. but in Indo, Australia, and the Red Sea there is a greater deviation of colors than there is here. When coral collectors are doing their job, they are also aiming for brighter corals, not the brown ones, as they can get more money for them.

Additionally, have you looked at your corals under sunlight before. I was fragging a bunch of cornbred and other bright designer corals this week. I can tell you that they all look tan and brown under sunlight. This is before we factor in how light scatters with water depth, eliminating the colors that our eyes can detect. So unless you’re bringing a large actinic flashlight and getting up close and personal with each coral while diving, you're never going to see these colors in nature.

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Nonetheless, I think you are stumbling on a truth that many people in the hobby take years to discover. These corals have value to ‘you’, based on their attributes that ‘you’ like, colors that ‘you’ find appealing, shapes that match what ‘you’ prefer... it’s a very personal opinion. We shouldn’t be caught up by fancy names, “a rose by any other name...”. If I were to ever find out a coral I got was fake, I wouldn’t care in the slightest. I got it because it had value to me. Changing its name won’t change its appearance, and it won’t change its value to me. This actually applies to most of our life in general.

Is it like Nike or Coach? Not really. These aren’t manufactured products, and there is no level of associated quality with branding. They are animals. It’s not a decent analogy from this perspective.

 

[SWATLTank]

I have heard the arguments that these techniques are very stressful to bring out the colors. But as a scientist, I have never seen any evidence as such. More so, I have never heard logic that I believed support this either. To me, these are simply sensationalist news stories, and not necessarily true by any measure. That said, I’m open minded towards evidence, and want my animals to do best.

Corals are not necessarily ‘forced’ to have color expressed. There are many ways in which this sentence is wrong, but I don’t have a ton of time to do all of them.

When you are diving, what colors do the corals ‘mostly look’? Brown, right. Well, for one, we just addressed it: “mostly”. Not all corals appear quite so brown in nature. This statement is especially true in the Gulf. but in Indo, Australia, and the Red Sea there is a greater deviation of colors than there is here. When coral collectors are doing their job, they are also aiming for brighter corals, not the brown ones, as they can get more money for them.

Additionally, have you looked at your corals under sunlight before. I was fragging a bunch of cornbred and other bright designer corals this week. I can tell you that they all look tan and brown under sunlight. This is before we factor in how light scatters with water depth, eliminating the colors that our eyes can detect. So unless you’re bringing a large actinic flashlight and getting up close and personal with each coral while diving, you're never going to see these colors in nature.

-
Nonetheless, I think you are stumbling on a truth that many people in the hobby take years to discover. These corals have value to ‘you’, based on their attributes that ‘you’ like, colors that ‘you’ find appealing, shapes that match what ‘you’ prefer... it’s a very personal opinion. We shouldn’t be caught up by fancy names, “a rose by any other name...”. If I were to ever find out a coral I got was fake, I wouldn’t care in the slightest. I got it because it had value to me. Changing its name won’t change its appearance, and it won’t change its value to me. This actually applies to most of our life in general.

Is it like Nike or Coach? Not really. These aren’t manufactured products, and there is no level of associated quality with branding. They are animals. It’s not a decent analogy from this perspective.

I get you! I loved my purple hybrid Rose's at my other house full well knowing they didn't occur naturally! I'm getting a chalice!!

I thought about it some more (even more LOL) and figured the corals themselves probably do the very same thing over time in the depths of the ocean creating new and beautiful types we have not yet seen.

Just too in my head wanting to do the right thing. LOL Just so you know, I'm that person who excitedly goes to the zoo and then gets sad walking around thinking the animals were kidnapped from there natural environment for our amusement and entertainment.

Thanks for responding. Look forward to meeting you on Feb 23rd!

 

[jcook54]

I really do think the comparison to flowers is a good one. I'm looking at 2 camellia bushes right now. They both came with the house and appear to be the same age and type. One of the is in the back corner and I don't pay much attention to it. It's leggy, spindly and has a few nice blooms on it but nothing too crazy. The other is right off my back porch. It's full, healthy and has a ton of blooms. Guess which on get's trimmed, fertilized and maintained? The one closer to the house get a lot more attention because it's right here and I look at it every day. Of course the comparison breaks down when you consider that coral is a living animal and the algae (plant) is just part of it but you get the idea.

 

[SWATLTank]

I really do think the comparison to flowers is a good one. I'm looking at 2 camellia bushes right now. They both came with the house and appear to be the same age and type. One of the is in the back corner and I don't pay much attention to it. It's leggy, spindly and has a few nice blooms on it but nothing too crazy. The other is right off my back porch. It's full, healthy and has a ton of blooms. Guess which on get's trimmed, fertilized and maintained? The one closer to the house get a lot more attention because it's right here and I look at it every day. Of course the comparison breaks down when you consider that coral is a living animal and the algae (plant) is just part of it but you get the idea.

Hmmm. Camelia. Winter Rose. Nice.

More so comparing the idea of 'scientist' creating the beautiful color of roses we have come to enjoy and think common. Previously, you only expected to enjoy red roses. And the tulips... let's not get started on the tulip bulbs that were being 'engineered' and traded like stock at one time.

Just making the comparison that I have settled and made my peace LOL that what is going on with the Chalice isn't like Frankenstein and against nature regardless of how beautiful it is. I'm thinking it is perhaps just an expansion of it.

I get cha! Thanks for responding. (Give some love to that back bush!!)