Check Valve?

[crewdawg1981]

Okay... so continuing to build my system in my head and I started wondering if I should install a check valve instead of having all the 1.5 inch PVC from the drain and return flow back to the sump.

Thoughts? Horror stories?

I imagine that if I do go with a check valve I should get one of those Wye check valves so that it can be cleaned ... right?

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/products/pumps-and-plumbing/plumbing-sumps-drill-bits-overflows-uniseals/schedule-80-plumbing-fittings-and-valves/check-valves/1-5-george-fisher-wye-check-valve-swiss-made.html">http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/products/pumps-and-plumbing/plumbing-sumps-drill-bits-overflows-uniseals/schedule-80-plumbing-fittings-and-valves/check-valves/1-5-george-fisher-wye-check-valve-swiss-made.html</a>

(ugh... I'm. Spending. Too. Much. Money.)

 

[schwaggs]

1) You need to size your sump to be able to handle the volume of water that will drain out of the tank/sump when the power or pump fails.

2) If you would like a backup, you can use the check valve. I would not design a system that relies on a check valve working perfectly as there are too many variables that may prevent them from working when the time comes.

3) I have heard of people using them in situations where the sump is in the basement and display upstairs to slow the reverse flow so the pump can start back up when the power is restored.

 

[wolfie]

Check vale are good to have, but as alway you need to make sure that your sump can hold all the water if and when the check vale fail.

1 think I learned, everything will failed at 1 time ot another. Snail, alage and anything else could get stuck on it and stop it from closing and you will get all the back flow like it not there

 

[crewdawg1981]

I should be okay on the sump... its a 135 (Raj's and then Robb's old sump), and given the baffle design on it... It probably holds about half that when running so I could likely drain 50 gallons or so and be good (esp considering I doubt I'd be draining that much in a power failure).

I'd rather not have all that water drain down, but it wouldnt kill anything if it did. Just trying to bullet proof as much of the system as I can before I actually set it up... ya know.

 

[enderg60]

Check valves should only be used when your sump is a long vertical distance away(like in a sump) you can use them but as said dont rely on them. Put anti-siphon holes in your return piping.

If you do get one do not get ones from home depot, and do not get wye type ones(they clog and stick open, i know ive had them, they suck). Get the clear flapper type ones like this.

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/products/pumps-and-plumbing/plumbing-sumps-drill-bits-overflows-uniseals/schedule-80-plumbing-fittings-and-valves/check-valves/1-5-swing-check-valve.html">http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/products/pumps-and-plumbing/plumbing-sumps-drill-bits-overflows-uniseals/schedule-80-plumbing-fittings-and-valves/check-valves/1-5-swing-check-valve.html</a>


and be sure to put valves/unions on both sides so you can shut it off and remove it to clean it. If your sump is in the basement like mine, I would recommend a bypass valve parallel to the check valve so you can drain your return piping should you need to do any work on it.

 

[mockery]

Your doing a basement sump right? If so I would do a check valve cause that is a lot of water that will return from the tank. I've heard bad stories about the Wye check valves, the standard ones work fine. Just put it in an easily accessible area because it will require the occasional cleaning.

 

[hnguyen]

I've used a check valve on my 45 and 120 and it works fine. I got mines at lowes for about 8 bucks and another 2 bucks for the fittings to fit a 3/4" tubing. I removed it from my 120 because it slowed down my return flow by 1/4. But as everyone else stated. It will fail one way or another. I notice mines was letting water back down very slowly so thats when I knew it wasn't working out. If back flow is your concern than you can just to with a ball valve and lock it when you do a WC

 

[crewdawg1981]

Hmmm... Yeah my sump is going to be in the basement and on the other side of the house. So, in addition to a ~10 foot drop, the water will be travelling ~20 feet back, then ~10 feet to the sump (both horizontal runs) in 1.5 inch PVC.

 

[acroholic]

I wouldn't mess with check valves on your return lines Grant. Make sure you have enough capacity in the dump system for all draindown. Check valves have never been necessary IME.

You ensure you don't have a flood in csase of a power loss two ways:

1. Your overflow in the tank prevents any draindown past it's lowest point.
2. You never place the return nozzles more than 1/4" below the normal water surface in the display tank when the pumps are on. That way in case of a power failure it doesn't drain down past the opening and breaks its own siphon, in case the siphon break holes in the return 90 degree elbow are clogged.

Do the above and you will never have a flood due to draindown.

 

[hnguyen]

Acroholic;563636 wrote: I wouldn't mess with check valves on your return lines Grant, make sure you have enough capacity in the dump system for all draindown. check valves have never been necessary IME.

You ensure you don't have a flood in csase of a power loss two ways:

1. Your overflow in the tank prevents and draindown past it's lowest point.
2. You never place the return nozzles more than 1/4" below the normal water surface in the display tank when the pumps are on. That way in case of a power failure it doesn't drain down past the opening and breaks its own siphon, in case the siphon break holes in the return 90 degree elbow are clogged.

Do the above an you will never have a flood due to draindown.

+1 :thumbs:

 

[grouper therapy]

What size return lines are you using and how much head pressure are you creating? What type pump are you using?

 

[grouper therapy]

In a system with a single large return line and few feet of vertical lift, I have experienced slow to so restart with some pumps in momentary power loses. I would design the system to handle the return drain back but would install a swing check valve if you have a lot of vertical lift with large pie.

 

[crewdawg1981]

I'll be using a Reeflo Marlin with 1.5 inch PVC for pretty much the entire run. I'm thinking that it'll be roughly 15-18 feet of head pressure when you consider the ~10-12 feet of vertical drop and 3 90s, and then the horizontal runs.

 

[acroholic]

Dave (Grouper Therapy) uses check valves with success, so if you do decide to use them, I would pick his brain.

 

[crewdawg1981]

Hey Dave,

Yeah I was originally gonna just let it all drain back, I just see that as a LOT of water coming back. I'm confident that the sump is big enough to handle it, but that'd also be alot of air in the system when it restarts.

 

[grouper therapy]

I agree with acroholic as to designing your system to handle the backflow which sounds like you have so no worries about flooding. I have mine designed to handle it as well without the check valve. I prefer a true union check valve as opposed to the wye type. The main advantage I see in having any check valve is relieving the reverse flow action in a momentary power outage. During one a pump will sometimes spin backwards due to the reverse flow of the return line especially in a high vertical lift with 1.25" pipe and larger. If the electrical power is restored during this reverse flow and before the pipe drains, tremendous strain is put on the motor sometimes even preventing it from starting in the correct direction or at all. The pump you are using would probably have no problem with a restart as it is a high torque/ high head pressure type pump. But why put undue stress on it?

 

[crewdawg1981]

Agreed. I'll probably just put a ball valve on both ends so that I can clean it when Necessary.

Man I wish I was good with sketchup. I want to try and "build" my setup before I actually build it.

 

[grouper therapy]

Crewdawg1981;563706 wrote: Agreed. I'll probably just put a ball valve on both ends so that I can clean it when Necessary.

Man I wish I was good with sketchup. I want to try and "build" my setup before I actually build it.

check with Rededge is really good at sketch up

 

[crewdawg1981]

grouper therapy;563707 wrote: check with Rededge is really good at sketch up

Yeah I'll have to pick his brain a little more for sure. He can draw up something on there real quick.

 

[hnguyen]

Need something drawn up? I'm your man! I can get you a shop drawing in detail with autocad!! I work on the thing all day. &lt;--- engineer! :thumbs: