chemiclean and snails

[hzheng33]

has anyone experienced their snails falling over or dead after a dosage of chemiclean?

i have used chemiclean previously without this issue but the latest dosage that i used (per recommendation) has caused my snails to either not move for a few days or falling over and never climb again.

i have not dosed anything other than amino from Brightwell.

i have also read that some chemicals will cause snails to be stunned, just don't remember what it was that i read.

 

[ActiveAngel]

I have used Chemiclean in many systems at my old LFS. I can confirm that Chemiclean will completely wipe out many species of sponge; which makes sense as sponges are very simple organisms.

I’ve never experienced these affects on snails, but would be only mildly surprised if you noticed this. While snails are much more complex, they are nonetheless very sensitive to their environment.

 

[bhodges82]

Was the required water change done?

 

[hzheng33]

Yup. Done again this past weekend because some snails still keep falling off as of last night

 

[Adam]

Hmm, I've used it several times as well. Never had any losses, other than riding my sump of pineapple sponges.
Don't think it's low dissolved o2 because you'd be stating you had fish loss before snails.

Are you in the middle of a treatment now? If not try running carbon. Maybe clean the glass blow off the rocks really well and do another water change, then run some carbon.

 

[bhodges82]

Any chance you mag level is above 1500?

 

[hzheng33]

Mag is around 1350

 

[hzheng33]

Hmm, I've used it several times as well. Never had any losses, other than riding my sump of pineapple sponges.
Don't think it's low dissolved o2 because you'd be stating you had fish loss before snails.

Are you in the middle of a treatment now? If not try running carbon. Maybe clean the glass blow off the rocks really well and do another water change, then run some carbon.

no, it was a one-time treatment, maybe 3-4 weeks ago. followed by water change. two weeks ago i added carbon. but even as of tonight, my snails are still falling over/stunned.

 

[ActiveAngel]

Wait a sec... important question we skipped, which species of snails?

 

[hzheng33]

Wait a sec... important question we skipped, which species of snails?

Ninja, turbo, and astrea

 

[ActiveAngel]

Hmmm... in my experience, all of these snails have exceptionally high mortality rates. It’s not an explanation, but is less surprising than if you were referring to hardy snail species.

It’s a possibility that these guys were already on their way out, so to speak, prior to the Chemiclean, which may have just been another nail in the coffin.

 

[Adam]

Ninja

Hmmm... in my experience, all of these snails have exceptionally high mortality rates. It’s not an explanation, but is less surprising than if you were referring to hardy snail species.

It’s a possibility that these guys were already on their way out, so to speak, prior to the Chemiclean, which may have just been another nail in the coffin.

All three of those snails need a good bit of algae too. Maybe they are just starving to death and the CC treatment & timing is just a coincidence. How clean is your tank algae wise and are your nutrients fairly low so there's little algae growth on the rock and tank surfaces?

 

[hzheng33]

All three of those snails need a good bit of algae too. Maybe they are just starving to death and the CC treatment & timing is just a coincidence. How clean is your tank algae wise and are your nutrients fairly low so there's little algae growth on the rock and tank surfaces?

nitrate is somewhere between 5-12ppm using Nyos
phosphate is 0.03ppm using Hanna.

i do have film algae on the glass and rocks and i clean my glass every 2 days because of the location of the tank being hit with direct sunlight from 10-1pm through the windows.
if i count them right: i have 1 turbo snails, 3-4 ninja, and 5-7 astrea snails.
i saw my turbo at the same location for the last 2 days and then this morning it moved to the weirs of my overflow box....scratching my head


like you said maybe this is a coincidence

Hmmm... in my experience, all of these snails have exceptionally high mortality rates. It’s not an explanation, but is less surprising than if you were referring to hardy snail species.

It’s a possibility that these guys were already on their way out, so to speak, prior to the Chemiclean, which may have just been another nail in the coffin.

maybe...not sure really. looking through my purchase history, these came from Nemo and i bought them in June and July of last year. so they have been in the tank for almost a year now.

 

[hzheng33]

like i mentioned before, this is the first time i'm observing this after a treatment of chemiclean. really dumbfounded.

 

[Adam]

like i mentioned before, this is the first time i'm observing this after a treatment of chemiclean. really dumbfounded.

Just trying to throw some ideas out there. Everything sounds like it's in line. I hope you get to the bottom of it.

IMHO I'd pull the Turbo and toss it in a ziplock. They are nutrient bombs ready to go off. That and they stink something awful when you pull a dead one out. You'll get way more mileage out of banded trochus snails and they will reproduce in your tank.

 

[hzheng33]

Just trying to throw some ideas out there. Everything sounds like it's in line. I hope you get to the bottom of it.

IMHO I'd pull the Turbo and toss it in a ziplock. They are nutrient bombs ready to go off. That and they stink something awful when you pull a dead one out. You'll get way more mileage out of banded trochus snails and they will reproduce in your tank.

yes big fan of the trochus but Nemo didn't have any the last time i was there. honestly i'm tired of reaching into the tank to give a helping hand to the astrea.

 

[Adam]

yes big fan of the trochus but Nemo didn't have any the last time i was there. honestly i'm tired of reaching into the tank to give a helping hand to the astrea.

I've found it very hard to get them locally for some reason. The last time I tried Nemo he said he'd have them in a few days, went back and he told me the shipment ended up going to Stone Mtn.
Maybe partner with someone buying from LA soon, they usually always seem to have them.

 

[FutureInterest]

So snails won't die from chemiclean. That's just an antibiotic...

As for mysterious mass snail deaths in general... There are only a few reasons that happens. None of which are good...

The first is heavy metals and copper... Prolly not that or you'd notice more issues although snails are one of the first to show symptoms even before corals.

Second is dinos. Snails that eat dinos can be poisoned and die very slowly. This is possible... As cyano and dinos look similar but I'm sure you are well versed enough to know the difference.

Third, parasites. There are a few out there that can do serious damage to snails... There are even some fairly common flatworm ones that you can't even see as they are fleshy colored to begin with.

Finally, disease. It happens. They are animals and there are bacterial and viral diseases out there that can wreak havok on snails. I suspect bacterial though as the chemiclean will alter your bacterial make up in the tank and let certain other bacteria flourish due to the voids created. So bacterial issues seems to fit the bill to me. The bacteria is either infecting the snails or they are succumbing to some build up of toxin from their ingestion.