Connecting New System to Exisiting System

[jonboyb]

Due to the calcium demands of my SPS/Clam tank, I'm about to tie in another system to push up water volume of the whole just to buffer the CA and Alk levels. My CA doser went offline one day and I lost like 20 ppm CA With my travels if that were to happen while I'm gone for a while I could see a huge drop in CA. Likely wouldn't hurt anything, but my goal has always been stability.....and more H20=more stability. If that had been my alkalinity doser that went, the drop could be more devistating.

My current setup is a 93 cube with 20+gallon sump (about to be replaced by a much larger one) and 15 gallon stand-alone fuge. My fuge is about to go up to 30 or 40 gallons and I am in the process of setting up a 75RR that will only be softies and low CA demand LPS. I've always wanted a tank for a specific fish species and this will be it. The 75 will have a decent sump (likely 29g) that is elevated for gravity flow back to the sump under the 93 (which will be devoted for dual external return pumps....one for the 93 and one for the 75). Skimmer setup is still TBD. Now that everyone is confused, on to my question

The new 75 system will be in the 100 gallon range total volume. It will be tied into my 93 system which has a total system volume of around 150 gallons. Will it be safe and not stress my livestock to do a fresh saltwater mix for the 75 and then flip the switch to initiate the "mixing" of the systems (given all water parameters match)? It would be the equivalent of doing a 40% PWC in theory and the mixing should be fairly gradual. I can't imagine any shock to the livestock.....but it was worth asking given my livestock investment in the 93. Thanks.

 

[gnashty]

I dont see a problem Jon just make sure your equip handle the additional gals added..

I kinda like the idea of systems independent of each other - that way a disaster in one is not a disaster in all....if you are just looking for increased water volume for stability then I would set up a huge sump in another room or just a large tank somewhere else tied in.

 

[jonboyb]

That's my problem.....I was only allowed to have large tanks in my mancave in the basement and the tank walls back up to outside walls so no large fish room sump for me:sad:. That, and I can't afford to set up dual ATO, dosing, controller, and possibly chiller systems.

 

[budsreef]

Jon, I agree with having all the water you can fit into whatever space you have. What is your thinking on having two return pumps? I would prefer having just the one pump feed both tanks; put a shut off valve going to the new tank and when you are ready to do the switchover, just open the valve a trickle and let it slowly mix the new water with the old.

 

[jcusmarine]

Budsreef;576423 wrote: Jon, I agree with having all the water you can fit into whatever space you have. What is your thinking on having two return pumps? I would prefer having just the one pump feed both tanks; put a shut off valve going to the new tank and when you are ready to do the switchover, just open the valve a trickle and let it slowly mix the new water with the old.

+1


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[jef4y]

I'm with Bud here in that I would run one larger external pump and plumb everything off of it instead of one pump for each. Granted, you lose redundancy there, but the whole setup would be much easier and cleaner IMHO.

Additionally, please please please let me stress that if you can't afford NOT to have a controller. The amount of control, automation and redundancy built into even the cheapest controller makes it an absolute must in my opinion.

What you're looking at doing obviously isn't going to be cheap. A couple hundred bucks more is insurance on the thousands you have in the tank... Just my gospel. =)

 

[gnashty]

jef4y;576425 wrote:
<u>additionally, please please please let me stress that if you can't afford not to have a controller</u>. The amount of control, automation and redundancy built into even the cheapest controller makes it an absolute must in my opinion.

What you're looking at doing obviously isn't going to be cheap. A couple hundred bucks more is insurance on the thousands you have in the tank... Just my gospel. =)

+1

 

[jonboyb]

My controller comment was directed at setting up the 75 seperately and having a second controller, second ATO, second dosing/reactor, second chiller, etc.

The reason I'm running dual externals is purely economics and ergonomics. I already run a Blueline Velocity T3 pressure pump on the 93 system and have 2 spares. Took a long time to get my flow regime right with my manifold setup on the 93 going to the fuge, media reactors, DT, and UV and I can't fathom redoing my manifold. By running a second T3, I can do a similar design for the 75 and also tie the 2 manifolds together so that if a pump ever failed, the entire system still has some flow (although reduced obviously). It will involve adding a 1-way valve to prevent backflow to the dead pump in the event of failure.

I decided to go dual pumps based on personal experiece recently. My 93 pump stalled (my own fault as I hadn't cleaned it in over a year) which obviously stopped all return flow through my chiller. This was in the peak of summer too. While the lights did turn off as programmed due to temp increase and my DT remained at a higher than desired (but safe) 82, my sump and fuge cooked with powerheads and the skimmer pump. I actually drained the water it was so hot I was afraid to reintroduce it after changing pumps. Lost considerable macros in the process. In hindsight I should have programmed an entire bank (including skimmer and un-needed powerheads) to go offline in the event of a return failure instead of just the lights.

 

[budsreef]

With all that connected to the manifold and adding a new tank, I have no ability to say which way would be best. It sounds like you have thought through it and with your training would know better than I. Please post pictures when you get it done and let us know how it goes.

 

[jonboyb]

The only thing that concerns me about my design is the use of a 1-way valve for each pump to prevent backflow if it fails. I'm looking into several designs and of course each manufacturer claims their product superior...LOL. I'm not even sure backflow would hurt these pressure pumps looking at the impeller design. Maybe someone can chime in that has used check valves in a reef plumping design.

 

[jonboyb]

The more I think about it.....it would be prudent to set the 75 up temporarily as a stand alone for a few months. I will be forced to introduce a significant amount of new LR with this setup and the last thing I want to do is contaminate my spotless 93 DT with nasties. That would be awful to pick up something like nudis, redbugs, pyramid snails, etc. on the new LR and devistate my SPS/clam population. I can treat the 75 seperately and give it plenty of time for any egg/larval stages to pass before connecting the systems.

 

[budsreef]

If you are introducing new rock and such I think that's a good idea to keep them separate. As far as the one way valves and the pumps, I always thought back pressure only mattered to pressure rated pumps on start up or a quick off/on. I have one in my return line just above the pump just to take the pressure off it for start up in case it could cavitate or try to run backwards because of the pressure. I don't know if that is even possible but it gave me peace of mind. I still made sure my sump could handle the return syphon if it failed though since they are prone to fail without a regular cleaning. I didn't care if it closed completely, I just wanted to take the pressure off the out put of the pump since my tank was on the floor above the pump.

 

[jonboyb]

Just an off-the-shelf Lowe's/Home Depot type?

 

[budsreef]

If you're asking about the valve I think I got it from Marinedepot.com or savco.com. It has a union on each end and is clear plastic.

jonboyb;576460 wrote: Just an off-the-shelf Lowe's/Home Depot type?