Cupramine and Tang not Eating

[huskerreefatl]

Hey all,
I bought about a 3" Blue Tang, brought him home, and put him in QT. My QT is a 10 gallon tank made from water from my DT. The QT is a basic setup with a PVC T for hiding, heater, HOB filter that just has floss no carbon, small powerhead for circulation, and I added an airstone since I had read that Cupramine can deplete the Oxygen.

He was very active and eating great but then started getting spots. I decided to use Cupramine and now in day 4 from the start. After the first 16 drops on day 1, he still ate fine but after I added the next 16 drops on day 3, he has stopped eating. He mostly hangs out in the corner so he isn't as active as he was but his breathing seems to be normal. I have the seachem Copper test kit and it has been reading about 0.4 so I added a couple more drops today and will re-measure later. I assume that I will keep doing that until it is 0.5 and then start the 3 week timer.

This is my first time to use Cupramine so I have read a lot of posts about it. None of them, that I have found, address the non-eating issue. They do say that Cupramine can be an appetite suppressant but not how to fix it. The tang was eating anything that I put in: Rods, flake, Life spectrum pellets but wasn't to interested in Nori which I find odd.

Any thoughts on what I can do or other concerns?

Thanks,
Carl

 

[atlfishes]

First I have to commend you for setting up a QT tank. I like to add Seachem ammonia alerts to my QT tanks so I can watch the water quality. If water quality is an issue, don't use reducing agents like Prime, it can increase the toxicity of Cupramine. Also, I find copper test kits very hard to read and dose Cupramine based on water volume to eliminate error. Could the copper reading actually be higher than you think? Isn't the copper level only supposed to be maintained for two weeks? Could increase temp in tank to shorten life cycle of ick. If the fish was eating and healthy before and your dosage of Cupramine is correct, then I wouldn't change your approach.

 

[huskerreefatl]

Thank you for the response. I have the Seachem ammonia alert and have been watching it closely. Thanks for the tip on Prime or any other ammonia eliminator, I had read the same thing on numerous forums so I have avoided it.

The test kit is hard to read. I have put the sample right next to the color guide in good light so I think that my reading is correct...I even got my wife to give me a second opinion.

So the bottle does say two weeks but every forum that I have read and the Seachem FAQs say 3 weeks to ensure that the whole life cycle is killed...so a minimum of 21 days...according to their FAQ. Which I think is interesting that their FAQ doesn't match their instructions on the bottle.

Good thought about increasing the temp. I hadn't thought about doing that with the treatment. I did read one forum, http://reefsanctuary.com/forum/index.php?threads/marine-ich-myths-and-facts.23132/">http://reefsanctuary.com/forum/index.php?threads/marine-ich-myths-and-facts.23132/</a> , that says that the temp doesn't significantly change the life cycle but then on others I have read that it does.

As of right now, the tang hasn't eaten yesterday or today. I am a bit worried that the build of of uneaten food will raise ammonia levels. There isn't a lot but the pellets are sitting on the bottom, a few flakes are floating around, and a small piece of nori is hanging from a clip.

Any idea how long a tang can go without eating? I assume not 3 weeks.

 

[atlfishes]

Sounds like you did a lot of research. Seachem has good support, I've called them many times with questions. If you want clarity on the time, give them a call. Get a small net to scoop any uneaten food out of the tank. I'd only feed bigger frozen food like mysis until you get the fish eating regularly. Healthy fish could certainly go a week without any trouble.


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[lsu_fishfan]

Have you tried adding garlic to entice the tang to eat? Also, most tangs require more space and will be stressed in a small tank. Depending on how large the tang is, I'd say that the tank you have it in is to small

 

[huskerreefatl]

atlfishes;1054180 wrote: Sounds like you did a lot of research. Seachem has good support, I've called them many times with questions. If you want clarity on the time, give them a call. Get a small net to scoop any uneaten food out of the tank. I'd only feed bigger frozen food like mysis until you get the fish eating regularly. Healthy fish could certainly go a week without any trouble.


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I agree, they do have great support. I reached out to them about water changes and drops per gallon. Their FAQ said 4 drops per gallon but the math didn't add up based on 32 drops per 10.5 gallons when you set up the treatment. They responded right away and said that they recommend 4 drops because the 32 is actually conservative.

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[huskerreefatl]

LSU_fishFan;1054183 wrote: Have you tried adding garlic to entice the tang to eat? Also, most tangs require more space and will be stressed in a small tank. Depending on how large the tang is, I'd say that the tank you have it in is to small

I tried that tonight. I soaked the food and added a drop to the tank. The tang seemed more interested but I still didn't see him eat. He is pretty shy, if you are near the tank he goes under the pvc. I have to turn the room lights out and sort of sneak close enough to watch. He is 3 inches and it is a 10 gallon qt so way to small for anything beyond qt. He was eating when i first put him in so i think it is the cupramine and maybe stress from a small tank.

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[huskerreefatl]

Well, either the stress level has gone down or the mysis/garlic helped. I mixed a little mysis, flake, garlic extract, and selcon put in the tank and the tang fed...so that is good news. I guess it could be a combination of that and maybe he is either getting used to the treatment or it is clearing out the parasites so he feels better.

I know that the copper throws off the ammonia tests but I do them anyway and it is showing that there is ammonia. The Seachem ammonia alert shows that it is in the safe level though so I hope that it is accurate.

For those of you who have used cupramine before, do you wait until the ammonia alert registers at the first alert level and then do a partial water change or do you proactively just do a partial water change on a set time period? I think that I have the dosage dialed in because I took a sample today and then also used the reference sample that they provide and they matched so I assume that I have 0.5 and don't want to mess with it, unless I have to.

Also, I added an airstone because I had read that oxygen levels can decrease during treatment. Do other folks do that or is that an unnecessary step?

Thanks,
Carl

 

[jennm]

Well done all around - QT, research, asking the right questions, good observation and descriptions... you make it easy for us to offer help, and you've been given good suggestions.

As for uneaten food, I suggest vacuuming it out. A piece of airline tubing makes a good vacuum for a small tank, you can siphon out the waste without losing a lot of water. You can run the vacuumed water through a filter pad or sock and return it to the QT if you wish, so you aren't trying to figure out how to re-dose the tank.

Be sure NOT to use any carbon filtration as that will remove the Cupramine (I'm sure you must know this if you are monitoring the level - putting it out there for anyone else who is reading too.)

I find the Red Sea Copper Test Kit is a bit easier to read than the Seachem, and it does accurately measure the Cupramine. Not all copper tests will work accurately with Cupramine, but that one does.

Carry on - you're doing everything right. Hope the fish wins the battle.

Jenn

 

[huskerreefatl]

Thanks Jenn. Great suggestion to filter the water and put back. I will definitely do that. Thanks for the reminder about the carbon. I removed the standard carbon filter on the HOB filter and replaced it with floss to filter. I am going to get the red sea test kit.

Thanks,
Carl

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