Cyanide Poison?

[jp30338]

I had been eyeing a particular butterfly fish for over a week beefore I made the purchase and took it home. It was eating good and overall seemed healthy.
I went to the particular store and picked it up yesterday and put it in tank after drip acclimation. 6 hours later its dead... Red gills, red streaks on body, kinda darker blotchy splotches, and tail fin a bit frayed. Sounded like ammoina poisoning at first, so I test for ammonia with 2 different test both showed zero, as well as nitrite at 0, and ph at 8.3.

I called an lfs, and they sugsted cyanide as a possibility. Anyoe else out there with some input?

 

[jmaneyapanda]

Doubtful. What species fo butterfly? Cyanide poison doesnt cause a fish to suddenly keep over and drop dead as you described. Tankmates?

 

[jennm]

Sounds like a bacterial infection with the redness/streaks.

Cyanide still is an issue in the trade - but I don't think this is the case in this instance.

Jenn

 

[jp30338]

It is an ovalspot or mirror butterfly.

Tankmates are porcupine puffer, blonde naso tang, snake eel, and an urchin in a 125g. I got rid of the big snapper I had before adding the butterfly fish.

 

[jp30338]

oh and before it died it was breathing very rapidly, swimming erratically, and darting up to the surface, as if for air, if this helps any.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

If you are talking about Chaetedon speculum, they usually dont do well in captivity at all, but that is besides the point. I wouldnt suggest adding a more fragile fish, like most butterflies to an existing tank, especially with more active, aggressive tankmates, such as a puffer or tang. To me, the tattered fins indicate some degree of bullying.

 

[jennm]

Just as an aside... what is your specific gravity, and do you know the SG that it came from?

If you acclimated it reasonably this shouldn't be a major issue, but many hobbyists keep their SG higher than typical LFS... so if you know that there's a big gap, acclimation should be adjusted accordingly. It's usually not a huge issue to go from higher to lower SG, but going from lower to higher can pose problems if it's done too quickly.

I don't think that's the main issue here, but it's worthy of mention in general.

Have you contacted the dealer you purchased it from? I recommend that you do if you haven't already - I know if it came from me and this happened, I'd want to know for a number of reasons - firstly, to make things right with the customer, and secondly, so I could watch for other problems in my own system with remaining livestock. Two-way communication helps us all in that regard.

Jenn

 

[jp30338]

Thanks. I understand about tankmates however, it was only in my DT for a few hours before it died and I was sitting there studyng the behavior for any aggression, which there was none, excpt for the normal checking of each other out when adding a new addition.

The tank acts as a room divider in my living room so I have easy viewing access, when I'm watching tv..lol

I just asked b/c I have heard some things about this particular lfs, which I will not name in this thread, and where they get their livestock from.

 

[jp30338]

JennM;353175 wrote: Just as an aside... what is your specific gravity, and do you know the SG that it came from?

If you acclimated it reasonably this shouldn't be a major issue, but many hobbyists keep their SG higher than typical LFS... so if you know that there's a big gap, acclimation should be adjusted accordingly. It's usually not a huge issue to go from higher to lower SG, but going from lower to higher can pose problems if it's done too quickly.

I don't think that's the main issue here, but it's worthy of mention in general.

Have you contacted the dealer you purchased it from? I recommend that you do if you haven't already - I know if it came from me and this happened, I'd want to know for a number of reasons - firstly, to make things right with the customer, and secondly, so I could watch for other problems in my own system with remaining livestock. Two-way communication helps us all in that regard.

Jenn

The SG is at 1.025-26. I will certainly be conctacting the lfs.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

IMO, and my OPINION ONLY(!!!!), it would be terribly, and wrongfully, presumptuous to blame a retailer of a cyanide collected fish with any type of proof. IMO, this fish did not die of a collection malady if it appeared fine and was eating in the retailers tank, and then died within 6 housr of introduction into your display, with evidence of aggression (tattered fins).

And yet ANOTHER case for QUARANTINE!!!!!!!!

Just a question- if you have heard bad things about this retailer before, why did you buy there?

 

[jmaneyapanda]

Not trying to be snotty, sorry if I came across that way.

 

[jp30338]

No I did not take you being snotty at all. I just have heard from a few other lfs's about the potential issue... I purchased there b/c it is the closest lfs to me that has fish for a fowlr type setup, they have great prices, and are nice, I will give any lfs out there a chance if I feel they are upfront with me, and plus they did me a favor.

I did buy one other fish from them that died, but that was b/c I could not get it to eat, my snapper would bully it if it came out of hiding. My fault there...

 

[jp30338]

FYI..I am not trying to chastise an lfs, I am just asking for any opinion as to what could have caused the death based on the symptons I observed.
I asked about the cyanide b/c I was told that could have very well been what killed it based on the fact that the symptons from what I understand are closely related to ammonia poisoning, yet my water tested 0 ammonia on both my tests. Sera and API.

 

[jennm]

If the fish was apparently healthy and happy at the LFS for over a week, and then crashed suddenly when moved, it's unlikely that it was a collection issue.

Jenn

 

[jp30338]

I wonder if it could have been from the puffer toxin left in the water, from last week when my snapper bit my puffer and got poisoned if you remember that thread? I did do a HUGE water change and the poison did not affect the eel or tang...

 

[jennm]

Doubtful, IMO. That wouldn't make red streaks or fray fins.

 

[fish scales2]

This sponsor keeps his SG at 1.024 at the lowest. Could this also pose a problem to those customers that are running thiers at 1.021?

 

[jennm]

It could, potentially. In my experience it's less of an issue moving to a lower specific gravity than moving to a higher one.

It's always a good idea to check the SG of the bag water and one's own tank and adjust the acclimation procedure accordingly.

The hardiness (or fragility) of the specimen should always be considered too. Some things tolerate changes more easily than others. Bottom line is, common sense should always prevail

Jenn

 

[jp30338]

ares;353216 wrote: grasping at straws here, but the container it was dripped in was clean I presume?

sometimes, it just doesnt work...

It should have been I use it for SW exclusively, and none of my other livestock are affected.

 

[jp30338]

JennM;353171 wrote: Sounds like a bacterial infection with the redness/streaks.

Cyanide still is an issue in the trade - but I don't think this is the case in this instance.

Jenn

If there was a bacteria/parasite infection, would the stress of moving the fish accelerate the deterioraion of the fishes health?