cyanobacteria suggestions?

[calamari]

Ive got a 29 gallon reef tank thats 4 monthes old with a succesful history -no deathes of fish or corals. Slowly a cyano problem has built up. I change at least 25% ro water weekly.
Lighting has been working up to 12 hours of 144 watt pcf.
Only thing I believe might be cause is overfeeding although I feed only once a day for fish, either mysis shrimp, krill, or dry food ((light load-only one wrase and a royal gramma, fire shrimp/ peppermint shrimp, crabs,snails) I have feed corals daily either dt phytoplankton or cyleeze (?). Question: do you experienced folks think I am overfeeding? Coluld this be factor in cyano?
Phosphates are low and I dose with ph buster to be on safe side. Water temp is 78, salinity between 25 - 28, PH is good according to color chart test kit. I want to prevent a bigger problem with cyano before it develops, althogh I have read on forums that cyano in newer tanks is normal and will go away.
What cha think?

 

[xyzpdq0121]

A few things with Cyno have to be discovered:

1) your tank is still "young" and young tanks get cyno easier then "mature" tanks.

2) Overfeeding can often be a cause of cyno. You say you are feeding once a day... How much are you feeding in that time. If you are feeding 3oz of shrimp in one sitting that is too much. Heck even one cube is too much with two fish. Take what you are feeding and cut it in half. Then feed that half twice a day.

3) sometimes you have to remove the cyno to help correct the cyno problem. Siphon your sand bed, take a tooth brush to your rock that is covered and get that out of the tank.

4) SOMETIMES flow is an issue in cyno, it likes to grow in dead areas, increase flow to those areas and do not let the cyno have a chance to attach anywhere. (Note you are no correcting the problem of why it is there, only moving it for your skimmer to suck up.)

5) Speaking of skimmers, you did not say if you were running a skimmer or a fuge for that matter... Both are highly recommended!

6) Your lights are new, I assume. If not (or if you bought cheap bulbs) the breakdown in colorspectrem might be a partial cause.

That is about all the ideas I have here! Hope that helps!

 

[pnguye3]

Products like Chemi-clean or Red Slime Remover will temporarily treat cyano, but you need to really find out what the root of the problem is. As stated above, cyano can be caused by high nitrates and phosphates in accordance w/ too little flow. The nitrates and phosphates fuel cyano growth. When you increase the flow and disperse it well around your tank, it does not all the cyano to attach to anything in your tank i.e. substrate rock etc... If worse comes to worse, you can also dose your tank w/ an antibacterial such as Erythromyacin...which would also just be a temporary type of fix.

 

[pnguye3]

Also, I would definitely cut back on feedings. I usually recommend that you feed every other day or so...specifically to keep nutrients down. Now if you have a good filtration skimmer, then that's no problem. Do you notice that you have lots of detritus breaking down in your tank? Do you run any filter media that may need to be changed out? Those could be sources of nitrates or phosphates as well?

 

[FutureInterest]

You guys are all very insightful .

The only thing that I think could bear some emphasis is that inorganic phophates are the primary fuel that allows the cyano to grow big and strong. As such, you need to address your phosphate issue if you want to have any success with your cyano. Your phosphate readings should be 0 not just "low". Also, unless you have one of the really expensive phosphate tests that convert organic phosphates and other more complex phosphates before testing for PO4... your phosphate test is not even giving an entirely accurate phosphate reading anyways.

In addition, I've never tried that phos buster stuff you're using, but I question its effectiveness... Since its dosed as a liquid...I assume it reacts with one of the phosphate compounds, binding them and causing them to percipitate out of suspension. That just means they're still in your system in another form... Who knows if they'll eventually leech out again. Instead, I think you should try a ferric hydroxide based phosphate remover to combat the phosphate levels, these compounds suck the inorganic phosphates out like a sponge and then you take them out and throw it away . Also as Brandon stated above a quality skimmer and a robust refugium are your best friends in fighting phosphates. Skimmers are the best method of removing the organicly bound phosphates and the refugium is the best way or removing the inorganic phosphates.

Best of luck.

 

[calamari]

Thank you all for your FAST response! I have not used a skimmer as I am trying to keep the system as simple as posible- I thought frequent water changes in this small tank would do it;seems getting a skimmer would be a good idea. I think the quantity of food for fish i put in the tank is ok although I have been feeding the coral too much from what I understand -every other day or twice a week is recommened, right?
Thank you for your help!

 

[rhomer]

One other item that needs mentioning is that removal of cyno is a long running process. It took me over 6 months to finally get rid of it. I would do a water change once a week and phyically remove all the rocks and scrub them with a brush during my water changes.

I would siphon out a buckett of water then pull the rock and scrub it. I added a phosphate sponge and changed that out frequently. I added a refugium, and would run carbon 24/7. All this for 6 months, then one day it just was gone.

Rob

 

[xyzpdq0121]

rhomer wrote: then one day it just was gone.

That is how it works... One day it is just gone!

People try to add stuff in the way of chemicals and livestock to TRY to keep it under control. It has little effect. Cyno is a force of nature and you have to solve why it is there. Like most things in this hobby, there is no quick fix. You can kill it with medication but it is just going to come back, more resistant later on.

If you measure any PO4, you are going to have cyno, or atleast the chance to have cyno. If you have high levels of NO3, you are going to have cyno, or atleast the increased chance for cyno. It really bears to meanton too, most people think you CYCLE ends when you do not detect any ammonia, or NO2. It doesn't, it take months to get the things in balance that you can not test for. if you still have the cyno problem after your tank has been set up for 6 months, then there are some other factor that need to be addressed. For the meantime, limit your food to what your fish need. (Don't worry you are not going to starve them) and put the "solution in a bottle" down, it is not helping anything IMHO.

 

[zman676]

So, is the conclusion of this thread essentially to limit excess nutrients, brush existing slime off live rock/glass/sand/etc., and let the problem solve itself over time?

 

[xyzpdq0121]

zman676 wrote: So, is the conclusion of this thread essentially to limit excess nutrients, brush existing slime off live rock/glass/sand/etc., and let the problem solve itself over time?

Yes, that is the BEST way to CURE the problem. Cyno is a part of EVERY tank. It takes time for the things to balance out and correct the problem. I think that "cure alls" in a bottle are a waste of time and money for the most part. The reason they sell is people are looking for a quick fix... There is not one! IMHO there are steps that can be taken to assure that your "cyno time" is less then someother peoples, (Namely a good skimmer and setting up a good biological filtrationt he first tome) but we all have had cyno and it does clear up on its own with nothing else to feed on.

 

[kwl1763]

Increase flow also but yes Brandon et al. are correct. As with almost all algea/bacteria issues a nutrient problem is the main cause. If you solve that (less feeding, more skimming, more water changes, etc) it will just poof go away. It should be noted as rhomer mentioned that with a sandbed and rock they probably have nutrients stored up so it can be a few month battle here.

 

[lenny]

In the past I would have said the product "Red Slime Remover" was the way to go, but I had an outbreak of cyano in my tank two weeks ago. I bought three "Black Mexican Turbo" snails from Marine Fish (not the normal ones, the ones with the Black shells with the white/silver centerspiral tips) ... They said they were cyano nukes, and they were right. These things instantly found and ate up all the cyano within two days, and then moved on to the green hair. I'm a big fan.

 

[calamari]

That sounds like a great solution to the symptoms while I improve the water quality and let the tank mature. Has anybody head of these cyano eating snails?
At Cab Bay I was told sea heres will eat it but then they have to be feed and I have seen them grow large enough to bulldoze thru my little tank, so I dont think they are the best option.

 

[xyzpdq0121]

Plus a sea hare CAN whipe out your tank, it is so toxic!