Dan's 180 SLOW Build

[saltwaterwannabe]

Looking forward to a huge build by my standards. It will be a couple of months till I actually set it up while I finish another project and pickup more equipment. I will be finished moving the washroom upstairs in a month or so which will free up my sump room. The sump room should be ready by the time I start setting it up.

Here is the 180, temporarily garaged on my trailer.

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class="gc-images" title="uploadfromtaptalk1457202120356.jpg[/IMG] style="max-width:400px" /></a> Here is the future location for the tank. The wine rack moves elsewhere and the cabinet needs a couple braces as well as a brace below in the basement.

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class="gc-images" title="uploadfromtaptalk1457202197649.jpg[/IMG] style="max-width:400px" /></a>

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[saltwaterwannabe]

Well, as always, my plans change at the speed of light....lol. Since the tank is 3/8 inch too long without pulling drywall, moving a wall, and modifying the built in cabinet, I have decided on another location for it. I will have to add some tripple sister joists based on load calcs, extend the 30 amp circuit, and plumbing...but it is all accessible and would not require rework if the tank ever goes away. Downside is the location is the opposite end of the house from my future sump room. Upside is I am guessing I will never need a chiller with that much pipe from dt to sump room.

Looks like I get to build a stand and use those tools in the garage. I am planning 96x30x32 tall so I have plenty of sump space and I could upgrade to a massive dt someday if I choose to.

Fast changing plans and a slow build.....
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[grouper therapy]

Wow what kind of joist do you have ? Triple sister joist ! What safety factor are you using?

 

[saltwaterwannabe]

grouper therapy;1075556 wrote: Wow what kind of joist do you have ? Triple sister joist !

2x10 at a 11.5 foot span. The joists are running parralel with the tank length, which is the worst layout possible structurally. The calc was for tank, sump, and stand over two joist groups made of 2x10 no 2 pine. I could go to a structural select wood, but those are not on the shelf at Home Depot. Admittedly, it was late when I ran the calcs and structural is not my forte, so I should review when I have more time. The outcome was 3/8 inches of deflection (L/360), which meets code but is not great given there is glass involved.

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[grouper therapy]

No doubt. You are probably spot on with your calcs.I'm not a structural engineer either, actually not an engineer at all. I have done some calcs in the past when designing free standing stairs. As you can attest to, there are so many variables in structural analysis that it is almost impossible to verify the "absolute" live load rating on floor systems. . A floor system may hold a 210 gallon aquarium with minimum deflection but will it hold an additional 1500lbs of individuals gather around the tank during a .party. triple 2x10 doesn't seem overkill to me. Heck a 1/4" flitching plate may not hurt either.lol

 

[saltwaterwannabe]

I am looking at my stand design and am planning to oversize it to have more room for sump, etc... . I am considering mounting acrylic to the inside bottom and sides for leak colllection...it ocurred to me that it might be possible to use the same setup as the sump itself. Is there any reason people do not build the sump into the stand?

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[jbdreefs]

SaltWaterWannabe;1076364 wrote: I am looking at my stand design and am planning to oversize it to have more room for sump, etc... . I am considering mounting acrylic to the inside bottom and sides for leak colllection...it ocurred to me that it might be possible to use the same setup as the sump itself. Is there any reason people do not build the sump into the stand?

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I can think of a few reasons:

1) can't swap sumps.
2) can't remove to clean or repair.

Basically, if something goes wrong, it would lead to an almost complete breakdown.

 

[grouper therapy]

Are you not building a sump room?

 

[saltwaterwannabe]

I am contemplating an option since the tank will be at the opposite corner of the house now. I estimate about 80 feet of pipe would be needed for each run along with 5 to 6 bends. I can still do the sump room, but that is 3 times as far as the other location. If I do run that far, I would have to make a low point to clear an obstacle and to hopefuly have an easy ability to drain the line. I have a convenient spot for a low point with a drain about midpoint.

I am just weighing the options. Any advice would be appreciated. Would 1 inch pex be ok?

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[saltwaterwannabe]

JBDreefs;1076373 wrote: I can think of a few reasons:

1) can't swap sumps.
2) can't remove to clean or repair.

Basically, if something goes wrong, it would lead to an almost complete breakdown.

Great reasons, thanks

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[saltwaterwannabe]

SaltWaterWannabe;1076378 wrote: I am contemplating an option since the tank will be at the opposite corner of the house now. I estimate about 80 feet of pipe would be needed for each run along with 5 to 6 bends. I can still do the sump room, but that is 3 times as far as the other location. If I do run that far, I would have to make a low point to clear an obstacle and to hopefuly have an easy ability to drain the line. I have a convenient spot for a low point with a drain about midpoint.

I am just weighing the options. Any advice would be appreciated. Would 1 inch pex be ok?

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I am still leaning towards a sump room, but there is a bit of work to carry 2 runs of 1.5 pvc 80 feet, most of it in cable and plumbing trays I built into the basement.

I think I already know the answere, but does a sump room help enough to be worth the time putting in about 160 feet of plumbing?

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[lsu_fishfan]

SaltWaterWannabe;1076411 wrote: I am still leaning towards a sump room, but there is a bit of work to carry 2 runs of 1.5 pvc 80 feet, most of it in cable and plumbing trays I built into the basement.

I think I already know the answere, but does a sump room help enough to be worth the time putting in about 160 feet of plumbing?

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It allows for more space to work, larger sump, and minimal noise around the tank.

If I could, I'd try to do a sump room.

 

[grouper therapy]

LSU_fishFan;1076420 wrote: It allows for more space to work, larger sump, and minimal noise around the tank.

If I could, I'd try to do a sump room.

Excellent advice

I will never do an in stand sump if there is anyway I could do a sump room. Especially on a large tnk. I have a sump room for a 45 cube!!lol

 

[saltwaterwannabe]

Sounds like I will be running a lot of pipe accross the house. I can run the head calcs to pick a size, but is there any good practice minimum size and type of pipe?

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[grouper therapy]

SaltWaterWannabe;1076439 wrote: Sounds like I will be running a lot of pipe accross the house. I can run the head calcs to pick a size, but is there any good practice minimum size and type of pipe?

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Dan there is a really good "practical" calculator on reef central. Remember it is much easier to control or throttle pumps with a valve rather than being limited on volume due to under size pipe. You can't go too big. I used 3/4 " pvc on mine but I made all large sweeping 90 elbows and only had to go 15' horizontally. There is not as much friction loss as one would think especially if you go with larger pipe.

 

[ghbrewer]

For a 180, "I" would run 1-inch supply line(s) over that kind of distance and due to the number of bends you might end up with. You can always reduce your size once you get to the tank. Like Grouper stated, larger is better.

 

[saltwaterwannabe]

I was debating on 1.5 or 2 inch for siphon flow to my tank to sump. I was trying to get to 10x turnover an hour, which I thought was overkill, but the sump would be on the floor to acheive 10x turnover an hour using 2 inch pvc. If 1 inch is considered oversize, this will be much easier than I thought. Should I be worried about achieving high turnover in my dt so my internal circulation is less?

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[grouper therapy]

IMO turn over does not have to be 10x the dt volume .doesn't hurt anything. The skimmer will only process what it pulls in via its pump unless it is a recirculating model. 2" Drain in my opinion and 1 return. That is what I had on my 156 and it worked well I had both overflows dumping into the 2" drain

 

[ghbrewer]

Just so we are clear, Grouper and I were discussing the return line that will come from the pump and supply water to the tank (at least that is what I thought we were discussing).

I would go ahead and go with 1.5" for the drain lines. 1" would work, but 1.5" gives you more capacity.

In regards to the whole "10x turnover rule", I don't buy into that. I try to achieve between 2-3x turnover in my systems, and 5-6x on the high end. I think that skimmers, socks, filter media, etc... all benefit from a slower flow rate in the sump. This also allows larger particles in the water column to settle out in the sump so it is easier to vacuum out.

Also, IMO, you should totally negate any flow from your sump when calculating turnover in the display.

Just my thoughts.

 

[grouper therapy]

ghbrewer;1076693 wrote: Just so we are clear, Grouper and I were discussing the return line that will come from the pump and supply water to the tank (at least that is what I thought we were discussing).

I would go ahead and go with 1.5" for the drain lines. 1" would work, but 1.5" gives you more capacity.

In regards to the whole "10x turnover rule", I don't buy into that. I try to achieve between 2-3x turnover in my systems, and 5-6x on the high end. I think that skimmers, socks, filter media, etc... all benefit from a slower flow rate in the sump. This also allows larger particles in the water column to settle out in the sump so it is easier to vacuum out.

Also, IMO, you should totally negate any flow from your sump when calculating turnover in the display.

Just my thoughts.

That's a good point. Never thought about sediment.