Eductors Vs. Powerheads

[outdrsyguy1]

So I was doing a little research on the flow capabilities of eductors vs powerheads and also energy usage between the two.
The eductors seem like a no brainer to me if you have room for a closed loop and a reeflo hammerhead. It looks like I can get about 25,000 GPH flow out of a reeflow hammerhead with eductors where as i can only get around 5,000 GPH out of a powerhead which costs just about the same amount as the hammerhead. The energy usage GPH/Watt is a hair less with the power heads but they foul so quickly with calcium/algae/etc that i'm sure the efficiency drops off like mad. Don't typically have those problems with external pumps nor do you have to clean them nearly as often.

Anyone looked into this or have opinions?

 

[dawgface]

There's a give and take of both

Closed loop is certainly cheaper, much more aesthetically pleasing with out the added power heads and cords. However the options for tumultuous flow and wave is very limited. Options basically only include oceans motions units which just place a rotation on the outlets. Last placing extra holes in the tank create additionally failure concerns overtime.

Personally I've really only used a close loop once that ended in a catastrophe... Admittedly was absolutely amateur error on my part and thus can not be tagged to a closed loop problem per se. With that I think the pros outweigh the cons and on my next tank I plan to give it to ole college try at running a loop again, but only if I could get the rock layout exactly "before I drill" the tank.

 

[outdrsyguy1]

My plan is to make a large island that reaches up to the surface and bring the closed loop over and I to the tank thereby eliminating any extra bulkheads and risk of leaking. I was wondering if there were any options for selecting different supply lines like a reef safe 3-way diverting valve. I could definitely set up a rotating direction gyre that would give good distributed flow that would spin the whole tank.

What was your error by the way? I can be pretty amateur at times hehe...

 

[outdrsyguy1]

Bring piping over the top and behind the rocks thereby hiding the piping is what I was trying to say

 

[dawgface]

Don't laugh but I installed a "closed loop" with out the closed portion..... :smacking myself still:

Basically I didn't want to run two separate pumps for return and flow. Additionally I wanted to take advantage of the holes already drilled in the used tank I had acquired. In the end I had the super bright Idea to plumb it all together and then rely on a check valve to create the "closed" in a power off or power loss... surprise, surprise check valve failed and drained the tank.

As for your setup up Rusty, sounds good. Just one further recommendation of using schedule 80 plumbing with the closed loop. PVC becomes very brittle very quickly in our salt setups. I've seen 40 break by merely tapping it too hard after years of use. I doubt 80 would break like 40 no matter how long in service. Using only for the external part of the closed loop will barely effect cost and only slightly complicate planning. By planning just take note that threads and size of everything is a bit bigger including bulkheads. As such, acquire the bulkheads first so you know the size of holes to cut. Pre plan a little as plumbing with sch 80 is often not as easy as running to Lowes or HD if you forgot something.

 

[dawgface]

outdrsyguy1;1037674 wrote: My plan is to make a large island that reaches up to the surface and bring the closed loop over and I to the tank thereby eliminating any extra bulkheads and risk of leaking. I was wondering if there were any options for selecting different supply lines like a reef safe 3-way diverting valve. I could definitely set up a rotating direction gyre that would give good distributed flow that would spin the whole tank.

What was your error by the way? I can be pretty amateur at times hehe...

Here is what I was talking about and maybe what you are thinking here.

 

[skriz]

eductors will put a tremendous amount of back pressure on the pump. So, you can expect your pump to be significantly louder. Just as the powerheads can get fouled, as can the eductor, so maintenance isn't any different, except you don't have impellers, etc. to worry about.

I use a TON of closed loops, but all without eductors.

 

[outdrsyguy1]

Thanks for the input all. I've never plumbed a tank before. Is it normal to run schedule 80 pipe or is that just for closed loops?

Also, skriz I'm going to have to disagree with you on maintenance. My powerheads get covered with corraline algae and regular algae after a few months. None of that is going to happen inside the closed loop pump. There will be some bio film and some detritus deposits but the main culprits are missing. I've also yet to see anyone that cleans their main pumps every month or two. Most seem to do it once a year at best.

 

[jennm]

You can get simple eductors that will fit on your standard return plumbing.

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/cpr-threaded-eductor.html">http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/cpr-threaded-eductor.html</a>

That's one example, I had some that came with loc-line on them too... like these:

[IMG]http://www.marinedepot.com/Pacific_Coast_Flow_Accelerator_FA_300_3_4in_Flexible_Ball_Socket_Tubing_Plumbing_Parts-Pacific_Coast_Imports-FT0033-FIFTFB-FT0031-vi.html">http://www.marinedepot.com/Pacific_Coast_Flow_Accelerator_FA_300_3_4in_Flexible_Ball_Socket_Tubing_Plumbing_Parts-Pacific_Coast_Imports-FT0033-FIFTFB-FT0031-vi.html</a>

Inexpensive way to amp up your flow a bit. We used to call them, 'mo-flow'.

Jenn

 

[skriz]

outdrsyguy1;1039123 wrote: Thanks for the input all. I've never plumbed a tank before. Is it normal to run schedule 80 pipe or is that just for closed loops?

Also, skriz I'm going to have to disagree with you on maintenance. My powerheads get covered with corraline algae and regular algae after a few months. None of that is going to happen inside the closed loop pump. There will be some bio film and some detritus deposits but the main culprits are missing. I've also yet to see anyone that cleans their main pumps every month or two. Most seem to do it once a year at best.

You misread. I never said pumps, I said the educators will get fouled the exact same as a powerhead.

You don't need sch.80 plumbing anywhere. No aquarium pump will even come close to reaching sch. 40 tolerances.

 

[dawgface]

Skriz;1039237 wrote: You misread. I never said pumps, I said the educators will get fouled the exact same as a powerhead.

You don't need sch.80 plumbing anywhere. No aquarium pump will even come close to reaching sch. 40 tolerances.

Raj, I recommended 80 as 40 tends to get brittle over time. In my opinion far to brittle when your talking a closed loop with the contents of the entire tank on the line. Which is all based upon theory on my part. In a, if I do it again, I'm doing sch 80 situation.

I was actually going to ask if you agreed but then remember who I was asking and thought, being the elitest that you are youd say schedule 80 ju as t because wrong? :shout:

Rusty, lots go schedule 80 all around but it's not a must. It's costly, a hassle but it's bulletproof and looks so much better!

Expect to spend a cool G on plumbing... in vales alone likely on that build.

 

[skriz]

DawgFace;1039246 wrote: Raj, I recommended 80 as 40 tends to get brittle over time. In my opinion far to brittle when your talking a closed loop with the contents of the entire tank on the line. Which is all based upon theory on my part. In a, if I do it again, I'm doing sch 80 situation.

I was actually going to ask if you agreed but then remember who I was asking and thought, being the elitest that you are youd say schedule 80 ju as t because wrong? :shout:

Rusty, lots go schedule 80 all around but it's not a must. It's costly, a hassle but it's bulletproof and looks so much better!

Expect to spend a cool G on plumbing... in vales alone likely on that build.

Haha! Not all pvc is created equal. The cheap stuff is, well, cheap. It will get brittle. The good stuff, not so much. But, yeah, sch. 80 doesn't stand much chance at turning brittle. There are certain sch. 80 parts that I use regularly. Most everything else is 40. If you're planning on using 80, up size the plumbing as the ID is smaller.

Valves: yes, yes, yes. Buy the best and buy them once. They last a lifetime and will turn when you want them to with minimal effort.

 

[outdrsyguy1]

Yeah, i noticed quite a range on valve pricing. definitely going to take some research. I may just spend money on nice valves in select key shutoff areas. As long as you can drain the piping you can fix anything, just takes a lot longer than if you have valves for sure.

sorry skriz, definitely mis read the part about the eductors. There's a guy on RC, totm march 2015 that uses eductors named elliott. He keeps his hidden from light in the rocks and hasn't had to clean them. I'd say his tank speaks for its self, of course his build is insane but still a testament to eductors imo.

 

[dawgface]

outdrsyguy1;1039296 wrote: Yeah, i noticed quite a range on valve pricing. definitely going to take some research. I may just spend money on nice valves in select key shutoff areas. As long as you can drain the piping you can fix anything, just takes a lot longer than if you have valves for sure.

sorry skriz, definitely mis read the part about the eductors. There's a guy on RC, totm march 2015 that uses eductors named elliott. He keeps his hidden from light in the rocks and hasn't had to clean them. I'd say his tank speaks for its self, of course his build is insane but still a testament to eductors imo.

Spears is the best of the best.

 

[skriz]

DawgFace;1039322 wrote: Spears is the best of the best.

Spears FTW!