Finishing basement help me design for tank

[JPH]

Hey everyone! I've been on this forum for years off and on. It's a wealth of knowledge and all the members are always so helpful. I really appreciate it and love reading through threads. This thread may need to be in the "DIY" section but I'm not sure. So I'll start it here if it needs to be moved feel free or I'll delete and start a new one.

So, here's the deal, I am finishing my basement. I've got a lot of work ahead of me so the tank won't come for quite a while but since I have the room and space and ability I'd like to plan ahead for whatever tankni decide to install. This space will be for entertaining friends, family time, teenager hangout etc. The space I have picked out for my tank will be in the great room and will be the first thing you see as you co.e down the stairs into the basement. It will be facing you head on, and will be visible from almost all the common area, even the kitchenette on the other side of the basement. It will be a very open concept space. Since I've pretty much decided on the location I want to go ahead and prep the space for the plumbing and electrical...

I am moving some bathroom drain lines under the slab so there will be some jackhammering and plumbing going on. Since that will be happening it will not take much more work to install a drain line in the room behind the tank where the filtration system will be. Would that be a good idea or a waste of money and time? I own a general contracting biz so my guys will do it economically for me. But there's still coat involved and I don't want to waste money. I was thinking it may be good Insurance?

I am removing our tank water heater and installing a tanless water heater in that utility room where the sump will be. Should I plumb a cold water supply there near the sump for any reason?

I assume I should go ahead and plumb something to be ready to install an RO system? Any words of advice for me on the space needed for that or the containers I'll need for that? What size line etc? Does that system need a drainline?

Currently right above the location of the future sump is where my modem, wireless router, phone punch system etc is. Should I try to completely move all that or will it be ok on a shelf above the sump? (It would be 4 feet higher than the top of the sump roughly if I leave it where it is now).

I'll be running all new electrical in the basement so now's the time to add the correct amount of power. Can you tell me how many circuits and what amp circuits I'll need to run 120gal-220gal set up? I'm not sure what size I'll end up with but I don't want to be wishing I would have done more electrical when its in.

I'll try to sketch up a drawing of the basic layout of the rooms and dimensions soon.

Thanks for any help yall can provide!

 

[ZapataInc]

@Adam is in the finishing stages of what you are describing.

 

[scuba steve]

Sounds like a great build!

Adding a drain line will be a big benefit. If you can add a utility sink you'll never regret it.

You do need a cold water supply to feed a RO filter, which also needs a drain for the reject water. I'd recommend 2 RO containers, one for freshwater and one for saltwater, 50gal of each if you have the space should be good. RO filters are typically run with 1/4" poly tubing.

I would definitely recommend moving the networking gear. Too much humidity and potential for splashes. On that note, it's not a bad idea to add a dehumidifier.

Electrical usually anything too crazy on a tank that size. An outlet near your equipment and maybe another above the tank near the lights. If you get an Apex or similar controller everything will be consolidated into a couple wall outlets by the energy bars anyway.

Looking forward to seeing the build thread!

 

[Adam]

I'm on my 2nd basement finish now. After having my 1st system in a basement I can tell you the first part of your plan should be ventilation, the second part should be ventilation and the third part is planning around the ventilation. I highly recommend putting in an HRV or ERV run on its own ductwork.

Get the rough hvac and ventilation runs done first. Then plan the electrical and plumbing runs. Any floor work for the plumbing is next. If you have to put in a sump and discharge pump to get sewage to grade I would do whatever fish/sump room drains and saltwater waste separately or even just out into the yard.

Two 20A circuits on either side of the sump would be a start. Then plan for whatever else you want to do. It never hurts to put in extra runs now than to wish you'd have done it later. This is also the time to address backup power. A whole home generator backup or a transfer switch and plug in point of a generator outside.

If you've addressed the ventilation correctly the router, phone and wifi should be ok. I think I'd still err on the side of moving it.

If you'd like to stop by and see where things are here you're more than welcome.

 

[sharis100]

Utility sink in fishroom with good faucet and room to wash your equipment with space for fragging etc. Drains in floor are not necessary but a nice luxury if you have good utility sink. If you put drains in floor, make sure entire fishroom floor waterproof so that you can run a hose to clean. RoDI set up near your mixing station and cold water needed for RoDI. Plan and run your power in separate GFCI circuits- for what you want to run and double it for future of what you actually are running.

 

[JPH]

Steve, Adam, thanks so much for the advice! This is exactly the advice I was looking for. Adam, what part of town do you live in? If it's not too much trouble I'd definitely like to get eyes on it and make a mental list of how all this ties together. I'm a visual learner so that would be a huge help to me. I live in Canton but own a construction company and currently doing a job in Norcross and one in Smyrna so I'm all over the city at any given evening.
I can definitely run a drain line in the utility room. I can also run ventilation in the room. And I'm pretty sure I can fit a basin sink in there. But here's my issue right now that what you've said already has me wondering.......this utility room I was planning on using also houses my HVAC for the main level. And MAY house a new new unit for the basement level. It's possible that will go in a nother room on the other side of the basement but that's doubtful. Will the extra ventilation airflow affect the hvac in a negative way? My guess is no. But I may need to chat with my HVAC guy about it. The room may be getting a little tight with the introduction of the new hvac furnace, AQ equip, two 55gal drums, and a sink. I'm suddenly using it for holiday decorations and luggage storage on racks but can move all of that. I'll take specific measurements and report back with dimensions of the room and report back.

 

[JPH]

Sharis, thanks! I'm with ya!

 

[Adam]

I would not put a sump with QT's or frags tanks in the same room as the hvac equipment and water heaters. The humidity and salt will reek havoc on the steel.

An HRV or ERV will not effect the the exhaust flues. The unit gets load balanced so there isn't an over pressure or vacuum effect.

Hooking up your RODI in before the house PRV is also a good idea. It will greatly increase production and decrease waste.

I'm in Flowery Branch and home most nights by by 5:30. I also might need to talk to you about some of construction I need to get done.

 

[Adam]

Another thing I would consider is if a 210 is going to be big enough. A 300 with extra depth front to back might be something to consider. You don't want to do all this and end up wanting to upgrade is a year.

 

[JPH]

I would not put a sump with QT's or frags tanks in the same room as the hvac equipment and water heaters. The humidity and salt will reek havoc on the steel.
- I was worried you may say that. I may end up needing to move the tank to another wall and utilizing a different room for the tank mechanicals.

An HRV or ERV will not effect the the exhaust flues. The unit gets load balanced so there isn't an over pressure or vacuum effect.
- considering the comment and answer above the effects of either ventilation method would not be in play. If I move areas or rooms to a different spot it would negate this issue.

Hooking up your RODI in before the house PRV is also a good idea. It will greatly increase production and decrease waste.
- very good to know! Unfortunately the prv is located in the same utility room as the water heater and HVAC unit. Is there a maximum number of feet the quarter inch rod lines can run? If not then it's no big deal, I will run as much line as needed to make my way to the different spot.

I'm in Flowery Branch and home most nights by by 5:30. I also might need to talk to you about some of construction I need to get done.
- 10-4! I'll take a look at this weeks schedule and get back to you!

 

[sharis100]

I would not put a sump with QT's or frags tanks in the same room as the hvac equipment and water heaters. The humidity and salt will reek havoc on the steel.

An HRV or ERV will not effect the the exhaust flues. The unit gets load balanced so there isn't an over pressure or vacuum effect.

Hooking up your RODI in before the house PRV is also a good idea. It will greatly increase production and decrease waste.

I'm in Flowery Branch and home most nights by by 5:30. I also might need to talk to you about some of construction I need to get done.

Emphasis on do not put your house hvac in same room as fishroom. Also, run a dehumidifier with a hose to a drain or utility sink to keep humidity in room down and preserve your house. Waterproofing walls with plastic sheathing etc is also recommended. Fishrooms put out a lot of excess humidity in most cases. HVAC systems do not do well with this and your warranties might be voided due to salt water exposure. Also, when setting up footprint for fishroom - if you have the space for growth take it now because otherwise as time goes on you might regret it. You can also hook your fishroom up to your hvac and recirculate to outside similar to what they do for radon reduction to bring in fresh air. Run a vent to outside with a fan blower and it can bring fresh air into the room to help keep your pH up if your basement fishroom is super air tight.

 

[JPH]

Another thing I would consider is if a 210 is going to be big enough. A 300 with extra depth front to back might be something to consider. You don't want to do all this and end up wanting to upgrade is a year.

- to be honest, I haven't put too much thought into the exact size or what's available in any specific size. I just know that like you said I don't want to live with the tank for a year or two then wish I had gone bigger. But I also don't want to overload myself in cost, or workability. Many moons ago I had a 75 gallon cichlid tank that I loved but I always wished it were double that size it was. Going forward there's definitely time to think about and talk about size.

 

[JPH]

Emphasis on do not put your house hvac in same room as fishroom. Also, run a dehumidifier with a hose to a drain or utility sink to keep humidity in room down and preserve your house. Waterproofing walls with plastic sheathing etc is also recommended. Fishrooms put out a lot of excess humidity in most cases. HVAC systems do not do well with this and your warranties might be voided due to salt water exposure. Also, when setting up footprint for fishroom - if you have the space for growth take it now because otherwise as time goes on you might regret it. You can also hook your fishroom up to your hvac and recirculate to outside similar to what they do for radon reduction to bring in fresh air. Run a vent to outside with a fan blower and it can bring fresh air into the room to help keep your pH up if your basement fishroom is super air tight.

Great advice! I believe after yours and Adams comments I may need to slide the tank over to a different wall. It would still be in the same room and still be visible from everywhere in the basement but it would put the fish room in an area I can enclose it. However, the piping would have to go from the back of the tank into the wall make a couple 90s to go over a doorway then back down to the sump. Total footage run would probably be 16 ft or so maybe a little less so I guess if I went that route I would need to utilize a bigger pump. These are all good things that I need to know at this stage of construction. Thank you for helping me flesh this out

 

[jman930]

Not to hijack your thread but I too am working on a basement build. I have a 310 that I’m building a very small fish room for. Essentially just a 42”Wx10L foot room behind the tank which makes the tank an in wall. Aside from the humidity being high in the enclosed “fish room” why is the emphasis so high on getting the ERV or HRV? I have variable speed hvac units downstairs that will pull a lot of humidity out of the air. I definitely see the value in an additional dehumidifier in that room.
I hope to learn from the experience of this group before I make a long term mistake!

 

[JPH]

Not to hijack your thread but I too am working on a basement build. I have a 310 that I’m building a very small fish room for. Essentially just a 42”Wx10L foot room behind the tank which makes the tank an in wall. Aside from the humidity being high in the enclosed “fish room” why is the emphasis so high on getting the ERV or HRV? I have variable speed hvac units downstairs that will pull a lot of humidity out of the air. I definitely see the value in an additional dehumidifier in that room.
I hope to learn from the experience of this group before I make a long term mistake!

No worries! Ask away. It can only help us both.

 

[ichthyoid]

There is also an option to make a fish room open to the outdoors. Along with adequate ventilation, that will negate part of the consequences on HVAC & negate much of the need for energy recovery. It will not do so for the humidity from the in-house tank(s) though.

I have my tanks inside, with my water supply & mixing barrels in a garage closet. I am installing continuous duty duct fans from outside to supply the closet with fresh air. The run is only a few feet. Also considering a large inline carbon filter to scrub that incoming air. The air volume does not need to be great, as the mixing barrels have lids & limit evaporation. The mixing barrels will be connected via a Masterflex peristaltic pump to the aquarium sump for continuous water changes, via under the kitchen cabinets (no my wife doesn’t know yet, but hey, she’s put up with me this long!

 

[sharis100]

Great advice! I believe after yours and Adams comments I may need to slide the tank over to a different wall. It would still be in the same room and still be visible from everywhere in the basement but it would put the fish room in an area I can enclose it. However, the piping would have to go from the back of the tank into the wall make a couple 90s to go over a doorway then back down to the sump. Total footage run would probably be 16 ft or so maybe a little less so I guess if I went that route I would need to utilize a bigger pump. These are all good things that I need to know at this stage of construction. Thank you for helping me flesh this out

Our run of pipes from DT to sump is over 50 feet with many turns at 2 inch and 1.5 diameters - so 16 even with multiple 90s is not an issue as long as pump is rated for it. Abyzz pumps are beasts.

 

[Adam]

The HVR or ERV is not just to move humidity out. It's also, and maybe more importantly, to control CO2 levels you have the basement. Sounds like you will have a decent amount of people down there. There also sounds like a decent number of people in the rest of the house on a consistent basis, that doesn't include pets. Read up on co2 and it's effect on pH.

 

[Dmitri]

Not to hijack your thread but I too am working on a basement build. I have a 310 that I’m building a very small fish room for. Essentially just a 42”Wx10L foot room behind the tank which makes the tank an in wall. Aside from the humidity being high in the enclosed “fish room” why is the emphasis so high on getting the ERV or HRV? I have variable speed hvac units downstairs that will pull a lot of humidity out of the air. I definitely see the value in an additional dehumidifier in that room.
I hope to learn from the experience of this group before I make a long term mistake!

Here is what I have experienced from having big fishroom and using just dehumidifiers without HVR. Humidity stays under control in the fish room and the tank, however in the main room it’s elevated. I’m looking to add HVR to my system

 

[JPH]

So here's my basement floor plan. The kunundrum I'm running into is where my display tank is located does not bode well for sump placement. The room behind my display tanks current proposed location is a utility room with a water heater and the main floor HVAC. I'll likely put the basement HVAC in the same room close to the other HVAC unit on the wall farthest away from the display tank. That unit will not be as physically large as the one that serves the main floor. I could take over the bottom part of that room (as it's oriented on the page) for a fish room. It would end up being about 7' x 13'. But I'm running into the issue of possibly not having enough fall in the drain to sump pipe. So, what do y'all see as my options? ( drawing is close but not to exact scale)