Floats Normally Open or Closed ( + APEX HELP )

[k3nnyp]

Got an APEX over the weekend and I'm configuring my ATO setup and looking for feedback. First off, this is a DIY setup and not a Apex ATK. My setup is comprised of two float switches, a pressure switch valve on my RODI and a manual float valve.

Floats
Float1 - Normally OPEN - When Closed water is low and ATO is desired.
HGHWTR - Normally CLOSED - When OPEN water is critically high so do not run ATO. Configured normally CLOSED so that a raised float or line cut would result in OPEN condition. Seems safer for high water float than normally OPEN where a line cut would be equivalent to a float down situation.

RODI pressure switch
I understand the risks here and open to hearing them again.
Safety precautions
* Manual float valve in sump in case pressure switch sticks open
* TODO : Looking at a second pressure switch as another failsafe, potentially the Apex SV-1. Current version is 110v They will both be inline on the back side of my RODI.
* Sump area is dried in with a floor drain ( doesn't help tank salinity but could save my hardwoods )
* TODO : Mechanical Leak Detector. When water is present media swells and manually closes valve.
* TODO : Looking at APEX leak detection options

Apex Outlet Configuration
<---- This is where I want extra scrutiny ---->

Expectation : ATO will turn on when Float1 is raised unless HGHWTR is raised ( or HGHWTR circuit is broken ). There will be a minimum 15 minute OFF period between ATO being powered ON. Not sure I clearly understand the "Min" directive.

ATO - Powers pressure switch

Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Float1 CLOSED Then ON
If HGHWTR OPEN Then OFF
Min Time 015:00 Then OFF

Any input/advice/clarifications are appreciated.

Kenny

 

[Steve Burton]

Here is what I have, of course your open and closed would be opposite:
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If 72ATOB OPEN Then ON
If 72ATOT CLOSED Then OFF
When On > 005:00 Then OFF
Defer 000:10 Then ON
Defer 000:04 Then OFF
Min Time 060:00 Then OFF

 

[k3nnyp]

@Steve Burton
Can you describe what the 72ATOB and 72ATOT floats are? Is that T ( top ) and B ( bottom)? Are you using two floats for the ATO? Are the circuits both normally OPEN?

 

[Steve Burton]

Bottom float and top float yes normally open

 

[Adam]

Got an APEX over the weekend and I'm configuring my ATO setup and looking for feedback. First off, this is a DIY setup and not a Apex ATK. My setup is comprised of two float switches, a pressure switch valve on my RODI and a manual float valve.

Floats
Float1 - Normally OPEN - When Closed water is low and ATO is desired.
HGHWTR - Normally CLOSED - When OPEN water is critically high so do not run ATO. Configured normally CLOSED so that a raised float or line cut would result in OPEN condition. Seems safer for high water float than normally OPEN where a line cut would be equivalent to a float down situation.

RODI pressure switch
I understand the risks here and open to hearing them again.
Safety precautions
* Manual float valve in sump in case pressure switch sticks open
* TODO : Looking at a second pressure switch as another failsafe, potentially the Apex SV-1. Current version is 110v They will both be inline on the back side of my RODI.
* Sump area is dried in with a floor drain ( doesn't help tank salinity but could save my hardwoods )
* TODO : Mechanical Leak Detector. When water is present media swells and manually closes valve.
* TODO : Looking at APEX leak detection options

Apex Outlet Configuration
<---- This is where I want extra scrutiny ---->

Expectation : ATO will turn on when Float1 is raised unless HGHWTR is raised ( or HGHWTR circuit is broken ). There will be a minimum 15 minute OFF period between ATO being powered ON. Not sure I clearly understand the "Min" directive.

ATO - Powers pressure switch

Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Float1 CLOSED Then ON
If HGHWTR OPEN Then OFF
Min Time 015:00 Then OFF

Any input/advice/clarifications are appreciated.

Kenny

The way I've done this is assuming Float1 is going to be the main control for the topoff and HIGHWTR is an emergency failsafe.
This one bold line makes a big difference, there's nothing telling the system to turn off other than the fail safe. Also the order you place them sets priority, the last item always wins.

ATO - Powers pressure switch

Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Float1 CLOSED Then ON
If Float1 OPEN Then OFF
Defer 002:00 Then ON
Min Time 015:00 Then OFF
If HGHWTR OPEN Then OFF

You also might want to flip the float1 from normally open to normally closed because when float switches fail they usually fail closed. By swapping them you'll add another failsafe. Just reverse the ON & OFF in the programming. Putting the HGHWTR last means it it's tripped it will always win and also gets removed from the hysteresis. You would also put this line in your alarm so if HGHWTR trips you get an email and/or text message.

If HGHWTR OPEN Then OFF
Defer 002:00 Then ON (Here we add hysteresis so if there's a temporary open state it's doesn't trip the alarm. This DOES NOT get included in the ATO programming!)

 

[lmm1967]

I always this to the ATO pump code....

When On > 001:00 Then OFF

This (hopefully) prevents the pump from running for more than 1 minute. My ATO pumps typically run for 10 - 20 seconds at the most. If they are running longer than that at any one time then something is wrong.

In your alarm outlet (email alert)
If Error ATOoutletname Then ON

In the event that the pump is on for 1 full minute for a single fill, the outlet will lock out to manual OFF and send you an email. It will stay off until you log into fusion and manually change it back to AUTO.

 

[k3nnyp]

Thanks for the advice.
I've updated my code to reflect some of the suggestions. I'll look into the others before I make any more changes.

I didn't realize floats normally fail CLOSED, good information Adam. I thought the opposite but some brief Google searches supports your claim. The reason provided was the floats end up leaking internally and the salt water closes the circuit. Makes sense NOW.

I've set my When clause to 10 minutes until I get a good feeling for the amount of time required. I'm connected to a RODI output, not a pump, so it trickles in. When I had it running earlier at 30 minute intervals it was running a little over 1 minute. I'm changing it to run every hour. My goal is to increase the life of my DI Resin since lots of small trickles tend to expedite it's consumption. I've certainly noticed this with my current setup that continuously cycles on/off.

Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Float1 CLOSED Then ON
When On > 010:00 Then OFF
Min Time 060:00 Then OFF
If HGHWTR OPEN Then OFF