Halide Bulb Question

[basscyn]

<span style="font-size: 13px;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;">So…looks like I will be setting up a 175!! (Got a deal I couldn’t refuse).:yay: </em></span></span>

<span style="font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="font-size: 13px;">I will have a multitude of questions in setting this baby up…but let’s start with lights!</span></span>
<span style="font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="font-size: 13px;">The set up I purchased only came with PC’s so I will definitely have to upgrade. My intention is to set it up to eventually keep corals, but will probably just enjoy it as a fowler/softie tank for a while. </span></span>

<span style="font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="font-size: 13px;">The canopy on this tank is more like a canopy “cover”. I can’t mount anything directly to it. I would have to construct an internal framework to support proper lighting and slip this canopy over it. Or…I could purchase one of those 72” fixtures. I have seen some nice combo's that I really like with 3x250MH / plusT5's That would be much easier than a DIY light project.</span></span>

<span style="font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="font-size: 13px;">My real question is does any one have an opinion of the mogul base and screw in halide bulbs VS the double ended ones. Most of these “all inclusive” fixtures come with the double ended bulbs.</span></span>
<span style="font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="font-size: 13px;">Any pros and cons would be very helpful.</span></span>

<span style="font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="font-size: 13px;">Any other lighting recomendations welcome!</span></span>


<span style="font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="font-size: 13px;">Thanks as always</span></span>

 

[johnr2604]

I prefer the HQI's. There seems to be more bulb options out there plus they typically give you a little higher par. The drawback would be that the reflectors or pendants are a little pricier in some cases plus you have to use glass over the bulb. The single ended work too and have the advantage of not needing the UV filter.

 

[skriz]

The SE bulbs have more bulbs options than do the DE.
THe SE bulbs have better par than DE when paired with the proper reflector.
Se bulbs have the UV shield built in, whereas the DE need one on the reflector.
DE bulbs can be kept closer to the water than SE.
SE bulbs are cheaper.
You can overdrive SE to get more par; can't do that with DE.
SE setups are larger and more intrusive. DE are smaller/more sleek.

 

[johnr2604]

Skriz;216730 wrote: The SE bulbs have more bulbs options than do the DE.
THe SE bulbs have better par than DE when paired with the proper reflector.
Se bulbs have the UV shield built in, whereas the DE need one on the reflector.
DE bulbs can be kept closer to the water than SE.
SE bulbs are cheaper.
You can overdrive SE to get more par; can't do that with DE.
SE setups are larger and more intrusive. DE are smaller/more sleek.

I just shopped for both SE and DE bulbs and found more DE than SE. I may be wrong about the Par thats just what I have been told but I will know soon enough. Seems like all the SE manufacturers now have DE bulbs also but you cant get some of the DE bulbs in SE like the pheonix

 

[johnr2604]

I am definatly not trying to argue with you Raj because you probably know way more than me I am just checking to make sure that I am not misinformed. I coulda swore that I saw people overdriving HQI's on RC.

 

[johnr2604]

Never mind about seeing people overdrive them. I remember I was reeding about the Odessea fixtures being under driven 150 ballast on a 250 bulb when I was trying to be a cheap *******. So in essence I guess you could get more par if can only overdrive the SE's

 

[basscyn]

Skriz;216730 wrote: The SE bulbs have more bulbs options than do the DE.
THe SE bulbs have better par than DE when paired with the proper reflector.
Se bulbs have the UV shield built in, whereas the DE need one on the reflector.
DE bulbs can be kept closer to the water than SE.
SE bulbs are cheaper.
You can overdrive SE to get more par; can't do that with DE.
SE setups are larger and more intrusive. DE are smaller/more sleek.

*More options w/se?
But are the bulbs available for DE...acceptable?

Cuz that a biggie

 

[purplegorilla]

THe SE bulbs have better par than DE when paired with the proper reflector.

I have to disagree..Find me some backings on the web that shows this. THe DE bulbs will have more pars due to the fact that it is smaller and concentrated therefore focus deeper. Whereas the SE is spread out due its sizes..

I have a Par meter and willing to test my CHEAP EBAY BULBS against anything namebrand SE bulbs you can bring to my house. (And I am not a gambling man even though I lived in NEW ORLEANS many years)

 

[johnr2604]

BASSCYN;216800 wrote: *More options w/se?
But are the bulbs available for DE...acceptable?

Cuz that a biggie

Well after researching bulbs very recently and talking to some lighting companies the pheonix 14k is a hard bulb to beat but thats debatable. Its only available in a DE. I just recently put one in my 250 pendant over a 30g cube and I can say the colors of my corals have never looked better. I will hopefully get some par readings this weekend.

 

[skriz]

purpleGORILLA;216809 wrote:

THe SE bulbs have better par than DE when paired with the proper reflector.

I have to disagree..Find me some backings on the web that shows this. THe DE bulbs will have more pars due to the fact that it is smaller and concentrated therefore focus deeper. Whereas the SE is spread out due its sizes..

I have a Par meter and willing to test my CHEAP EBAY BULBS against anything namebrand SE bulbs you can bring to my house. (And I am not a gambling man even though I lived in NEW ORLEANS many years)

I'll take the pepsi challenge any day! The only reason the old data stated that DE had better output was due to the reflector. DE has a specialized reflector, whereas SE only have crappy spider reflectors. Now that Se bulbs have fantastic reflectors, they're hard to beat.

there is not a spectrum around that you cant satisfy with DE bulbs.

might be more mogul bulbs out there, but by and large on both sides of the fence there will only be a handful that you'll be interested in using.

I had always heard HQI was higher par and more efficient... Id be very interested to see otherwise. I know most mogul bulbs are in crappy retro setups, I know you can get the new lumenmax elite in a mogul or HQI setup, that would be interesting.

HQI is not more efficient. Also, SE has more par without being overdriven.

Both types of bulbs are good. I see the main difference being the space you have in your canopy.

 

[skriz]

THe SE bulbs have better par than DE when paired with the proper reflector.

I have to disagree..Find me some backings on the web that shows this. THe DE bulbs will have more pars due to the fact that it is smaller and concentrated therefore focus deeper. Whereas the SE is spread out due its sizes..

I have a Par meter and willing to test my CHEAP EBAY BULBS against anything namebrand SE bulbs you can bring to my house. (And I am not a gambling man even though I lived in NEW ORLEANS many years)

How about this. Sanjay Joshi did some testing a while back. He tested both SE and DE bulbs. This test is done without a reflector.

Let's look at the first 400w bulb that shows up on his test, the Happy Reefing bulb. Let's look at 14000K. The SE bulb boasts 245 ppfd at 532 watts with an efficiency rating of .4615. The same bulb in DE boasts 198 ppfd at 532 watts with an efficiency rating of .3737.

So, what do I win?

 

[purplegorilla]

Raj, your link doesn't bring me to anywhere!

 

[theplatypus]

With Mogul you can get 250K Radiums.

 

[basscyn]

[/QUOTE]Both types of bulbs are good. I see the main difference being the space you have in your canopy. [/QUOTE]

Thats the little nugget I was looking for!
If the DE bulbs provide acceptable lighting and I can be equally successful with them, I am leaning toward one of these nice little combo fixtures.

This may be more of a Ford vs Chevy type deal.

But now that I have the experts on line...how much juice do I <u>REALLY</u> need. The tank is 29" tall. My research tells me I could probably use 400w, but that is probably overkill. Being 72" long I would need 3 MH's and that 3x250 would be best over a set up that included any or all 400w bulbs.

Thoughts???

 

[johnr2604]

purpleGORILLA;216897 wrote: Raj, your link doesn't bring me to anywhere!

Same here.

 

[george]

BASSCYN;216912 wrote: But now that I have the experts on line...how much juice do I <u>REALLY</u> need. The tank is 29" tall. My research tells me I could probably use 400w, but that is probably overkill. Being 72" long I would need 3 MH's and that 3x250 would be best over a set up that included any or all 400w bulbs.

Thoughts???

Part of this depends on the spectrum you want. For 10K or 20K bulbs, I think 250w DE's will be plenty good for 29" depth. You will hear people jump to 400w bulbs, but unless you want the tidal flat look of ultra-bright lighting (and it can and sometimes will bleach your corals), it's overkill.

14K and 15K bulbs in DE form have pretty abysmal PAR, though.

Here's a corrected link to Sanjay Joshi's data:

 

[glxtrix]

Yeah I'll take that challenge too....we'll meet up one day and I'll put my 175's up against some big dogs This topic here is a tough one. The bulbs all do about the same...it just has to deal with how they are utilized. HQI and SE are the same thing....they have the same amount of space where the gas is burning, the SE's just have that huge casing which is UV coated. HQI, smaller...yes, closer to the reflector, yes and that means they "can" be more efficient. Thats what we're ultimately going for here, not the biggest baddest. I mean, my 175 put out more PAR than almost all 250's and a good bit of the 400W'ers....in the right reflectors

 

[basscyn]

ares;216930 wrote: now Im positive that a pheonix 14k has more par than a vast majority of 10k bulbs, and more than any 20k bulb...

personally Id opt for 400w. you wont bleach a coral under them and it will give the freedom to raise the lights a bit, give you easy access to the tank at any given time, keep the salt spray off them, and widen the spread of the light as well. I have 250w on 24" and it could be brighter... just doing the math, 175g 29" tall, 6' long, whats the width? if its 24" then nevermind, Im just thinking it must be a bit thinner, which means rockwork could be tough to get towards the top of the tank. leading to your corals farther underwater, further compounding the fact that you will be interested in the deep water par levels, which the 400w will afford you.

Hmm...not sure I follow you. Its a bowfront tank. 17" on the ends and 24" in the center. I plan on having some large peice and stacking them high!

 

[skriz]

purpleGORILLA;216897 wrote: Raj, your link doesn't bring me to anywhere!

http://www.manhattanreefs.com/lighting">http://www.manhattanreefs.com/lighting</a>

Both types of bulbs are good. I see the main difference being the space you have in your canopy. [/QUOTE]

Thats the little nugget I was looking for!
If the DE bulbs provide acceptable lighting and I can be equally successful with them, I am leaning toward one of these nice little combo fixtures.

This may be more of a Ford vs Chevy type deal.

But now that I have the experts on line...how much juice do I [B]<u>REALLY</u>[/B] need. The tank is 29" tall. My research tells me I could probably use 400w, but that is probably overkill. Being 72" long I would need 3 MH's and that 3x250 would be best over a set up that included any or all 400w bulbs.

Thoughts???[/QUOTE]

This will depend on what you want to keep, what colour bulb you're looking for, etc. More details...

[QUOTE=][B]ares;216930 wrote:[/B] now Im positive that a pheonix 14k has more par than a vast majority of 10k bulbs, and more than any 20k bulb...

personally Id opt for 400w. you wont bleach a coral under them and it will give the freedom to raise the lights a bit, give you easy access to the tank at any given time, keep the salt spray off them, and widen the spread of the light as well. I have 250w on 24" and it could be brighter... just doing the math, 175g 29" tall, 6' long, whats the width? if its 24" then nevermind, Im just thinking it must be a bit thinner, which means rockwork could be tough to get towards the top of the tank. leading to your corals farther underwater, further compounding the fact that you will be interested in the deep water par levels, which the 400w will afford you.[/QUOTE]

You're positively wrong. The phoenix has MUCH lower par than most all 10K bulbs. There might be one 10k that has lower par.

I wouldn't be overly concerned with par values. Go with looks, afterall, you will have to look at the tank. If you don't enjoy the look, you've just wasted all your money and time. The corals will grow, even with crappy ebay bulbs.

 

[george]

I second the aesthetics, personally. At your tank depth, anything 250w and up with a good reflector will keep corals (and clams) alive and healthy at all depths in the tank.