Help me solve my SPS woes! Please! (pics)

[rskillz]

Hey guys, I posted this on another forums as well, but you guys know what you are talking about, so I'd love for you guys to take a look as well...


So I've been in the hobby for six months and finally started adding SPS about a month ago. First, details on my tank:

72 gallon bow, 29 gallon sump, Reef Octopus skimmer, phosphate+carbon reactors.

2 250 14k Metal halides run from 1-7 PM (bulbs 2 months old)
2 110 watt VHO (one actinic, one dual) run from 9am-9pm (bulbs 4 months old)
3 Powerbrite LED actinic strips run from 7am - 12am (moonlights basically)

For flow I have 2 750 GPH Koralia evos, 1 1050gph, 1 nano, and 2 Maxi jet 1200s. My pump is 800gph. They all run on a Reefkeeper 2 wavemaker.

Params:

PH 8-8.15
Salinity 1.025
Temp 77-82
Calc 460
Alk 10
Nitrate 0
Mag 1460

I do bi-weekly 25 gallon water changes using Oceanic salt. I stay on top of the tanks need, that is for sure. Every other type of coral is loving the tank and growing. Never lost any other type of coral or a fish.

My first suspicion was the fact that I had no ATO and a fluctuating water level in my sump (due to poor design). So I redid my baffles, added a new ATO, and now my skimmer works great and never overflows and spills waste back into tank. That problem has been fixed for a few weeks now. I'm sure that upped the nitrate levels (even though I could never find them testing).

At this point, I'm clueless. here are some pics.

Full tank shot

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Montipora, which used to be bright green and pink put together. Was mid level of the tank, put it down to take a picture. Most of my montis look like this after a couple of weeks....

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ORA birdsnest which looked great for a while, but is not turning white at its base =(

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ORA plum crazy, refuses to extend polyps, turning white

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Marshall islands fuzzy, looked great for a while, refuses to extend polyps...

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Purple Bonsai, turned brownish, no polyp extension...

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Please help! Anything you see would be helpful...

 

[dakota9]

Following along, curious of what's going on here....

 

[fish scales2]

You say you have zero nitrates? Thats a lot of coral very quickly. What are you feeding? How far are the mh off the water?

 

[rskillz]

MHs are 7 inches above surface with reflector.

I use an API test kit and can never register nitrates.

Krill for the nems/dendro/turbinaria. I spot feed cyclop eeze to corals. pellets for fish.

fish fed every third day, maybe more, one pinch.

spot feed every other day or so.

 

[brianjfinn]

Rskillz;577960 wrote: MHs are 7 inches above surface with reflector.

I use an API test kit and can never register nitrates.

Krill for the nems/dendro/turbinaria. I spot feed cyclop eeze to corals. pellets for fish.

fish fed every third day, maybe more, one pinch.

spot feed every other day or so.

My API test kits have never registered nitrates, even when I new for a fact that they were high. Many people don't like hearing this, but the more expensive test kits like Elos and Salifert are well worth their price. They give you much more accurate readings. In my opinion, API kits are a waste of money.

I agree with Chris, your tank is still pretty young. Could be that you just need to let it sit for a few more months. This will add more stability and then you can slowly add more SPS. My guess is that there are nitrate issues that you're unaware of. Soft corals and many LPS can handle nitrates much better than SPS.

 

[acroholic]

What is your phosphate level?

 

[rskillz]

Acroholic;577970 wrote: What is your phosphate level?

I haven't tested it, I assumed the reactor would keep it in check. I'll grab a test today.

 

[acroholic]

Here are a few more questions:


1. Have you treated for red flatworms or Red algae lately, using a product like Flatworm Exit or Chemi-clean?

2. Have you had someone that knows about them check your SPS for Redbugs or AEFWs?

3. How often do you change out your carbon, and how often do you change out your phosphate removing product? What brand carbon and what brand PO4 remover do you use?

4. What are you dosing to maintain alkalinity, calcium, and magnesium levels in the tank?

 

[acroholic]

Other questions:
1. What type of lighting were your new SPS corals under before you bought them, and did you acclimate the frags to your metal halide lighting when you placed them in your tank?

2. What brand reflectors, brand of bulb, and ballast are you using?

 

[rskillz]

Acroholic;577975 wrote: Here are a few more questions:


1. Have you treated for red flatworms or Red algae lately, using a product like Flatworm Exit or Chemi-clean?

2. Have you had someone that knows about them check your SPS for Redbugs or AEFWs?

3. How often do you change out your carbon, and how often do you change out your phosphate removing product? What brand carbon and what brand PO4 remover do you use?

4. What are you dosing to maintain alkalinity, calcium, and magnesium levels in the tank?

5. What type of lighting were your new SPS corals under before you bought them, and did you acclimate the frags to your metal halide lighting when you placed them in your tank?

6. What brand reflectors, brand of bulb, and ballast are you using?

1. Never have.

2. I dipped a SPS once from the LFS and noticed a few bugs jumping off, but didn't know enough to really investigate. Otherwise, no.

3. Carbon once a month, phosphate every few moths. Marineland Black diamond and Phosban (seachem)

4. Reef Code A & B (brightwell)

5. Halides, but further up, not sure on the wattage. Always start low in my tank and move up.

6. Icecap ballasts, not sure of reflectors, Coralvue bulbs

 

[rjrgroup]

Rskillz;577960 wrote: MHs are 7 inches above surface with reflector.

I use an API test kit and can never register nitrates.

Krill for the nems/dendro/turbinaria. I spot feed cyclop eeze to corals. pellets for fish.

fish fed every third day, maybe more, one pinch.

spot feed every other day or so.

You feed every 3 days??? Umm...is that correct? My fish would tail slap me!

 

[superclown]

Correct me i im wrong but i thought having all above like 6 was bad thing

 

[acroholic]

2. I dipped a SPS once from the LFS and noticed a few bugs jumping off, but didn't know enough to really investigate. Otherwise, no.

You could very easily have either of these, especially if you don't use a product like Coral Rx. Best bet is to get someone that has had/knows about them come by and take a look.

3. Carbon once a month, phosphate every few moths. Marineland Black diamond and Phosban (seachem)

JMO, but that seems waaay too long between Phosban changes for it to make that much difference. I would change it now, and going forward use a phosphate test kit. When your PO4 levels start to rise, switch it out. I would change carbon out every two weeks, at least that is what I do. I change out GFO every 3-4 weeks.

5. Halides, but further up, not sure on the wattage. Always start low in my tank and move up.

A large jump in PAR levels can do to SPS what you are experiencing. I switched from one 250 watt halide system to another and bleached several SPS corals. I had to go to a 3 hour photoperiod, then raise it by 1/2 hour every week until I reached my current 8 hour photoperiod I normally use.

It is hard to determine from just posts here, but I would look at redbugs or AEFWs, your phosphate levels, or perhaps inadequate lighting acclimation. Your water change schedule looks good, and your alkalinity, calcium and magnesium levels look good. Your aquascape is open and you definitely should have adequate flow, especially with your SPS relatively small right now. Hard to determine from your pictures, but you do not want your powerheads to be blowing directly at your SPS corals, as they can literally peel the flesh off them if they blow right on them long enough

I don't think the time your tank has been set up is that much of a factor to your SPS issues. I believe the notion that you have to wait 6 months or a year before you add SPS corals is based on their historical difficulty, which is no longer an issue with today's reefkeeping experience and equipment. There are certain requirements SPS corals have that must be provided, but I think you have them, except possibly high phosphate levels in your tank, which are unknown right now.

You may want to consider setting up a cheato refugium, and if you do not already, use filter socks and rinse them. This will help keep phosphates and nitrates in check via harvesting the cheato and mechanical removal via the filter socks.

Other thoughts. Depending on the type reflectors, you could get a large increase in PAR just by switching your reflectors to a quality type, if they are not already in place. The pic below is called a Spiderlight reflector, and these are notoriously inefficient and are usually sold as part of a halide retrofit. They are inexpensive, and help to keep the price of retrofit systems lower. Switching to a Lumenmax Elite or a CoralVue Lumenbright reflector can greatly increase the PAR reaching your tank and help your SPS corals a lot.

VHO lights: you might consider switching the dual bulbs out for actinics. You should be a able to meet all the daylight requirements of your corals with your halides, and you might find the tank colors a bit more pleasing with more blue in them from 4 blue VHOs vs two blue VHOs. You might also consider next bulb change to try two Radium 250 watt bulbs. These are 20 K, and may eliminate the need for any VHO supplementation, and save you some money in electricity. I use 400 watt Radiums on my tanks, paired with very efficient reflectors, and I don't need any blue light supplementation, and I have decent colors in my SPS.

Also, assuming your SPS corals are light acclimated, you may want to consider upping your halide on time to 7-8 hours. Common practice seems to be a 7-8 hour photoperiod is adequate. I use an 8 hour halide photoperiod on my tanks. 6 seems a bit short. but again, JME.

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[ralph atl]

as been previously mentioned.......

Carbon at best will last 2 weeks.

GFO can get saturated within 24 hours if you have an abundance of phates in your tank........I change mine out every 10-14 days along with carbon.

Get some good kits.....for phosphate the new Elos is supposed to be awesome, but otherwise DD Merck, Hach, & colormeter. That's it.

Elos, Salifert, and Tropic Marin are good for Nitrates.......

Just go with the Elos or Salifert line for everything except phates.

 

[rskillz]

So, I think I found the culprit--or at least one of them.

I was using an API Nitrate test kit which never registered anything...I grabbed a Tetra kit today (not much better, I know) and it registered between .25 and .50 twice, being closer in color to .50

Upon further inspection (and my g/f's) we noticed that our blue linkia has been missing for a while. I looked all around the tank, everywhere, he wasn't in the overflow or behind it. I surmise he decided to go under rock somewhere and die, which is partially why I'm having such a spike.

So, I have a 30g water change brewing and I replaced my cheap phosphate media with NB Biopellets in one of my reactors and changed out my carbon in the other.

I also installed a small ghetto refugium with chaeto in my sump.

Phosphates tested about .10 with the Saifert test kit.

 

[rskillz]

Rit Aquatics;578023 wrote: How long did you had problem with your sps? Were the sps doing fine when you first put them in your tank?

They've never really done well. Every single other type of coral has done fantastic. REALLY had issues with acros and monti caps inparticular.

 

[rskillz]

Acroholic;577992 wrote: You could very easily have either of these, especially if you don't use a product like Coral Rx. Best bet is to get someone that has had/knows about them come by and take a look.



JMO, but that seems waaay too long between Phosban changes for it to make that much difference. I would change it now, and going forward use a phosphate test kit. When your PO4 levels start to rise, switch it out. I would change carbon out every two weeks, at least that is what I do. I change out GFO every 3-4 weeks.



A large jump in PAR levels can do to SPS what you are experiencing. I switched from one 250 watt halide system to another and bleached several SPS corals. I had to go to a 3 hour photoperiod, then raise it by 1/2 hour every week until I reached my current 8 hour photoperiod I normally use.

It is hard to determine from just posts here, but I would look at redbugs or AEFWs, your phosphate levels, or perhaps inadequate lighting acclimation. Your water change schedule looks good, and your alkalinity, calcium and magnesium levels look good. Your aquascape is open and you definitely should have adequate flow, especially with your SPS relatively small right now. Hard to determine from your pictures, but you do not want your powerheads to be blowing directly at your SPS corals, as they can literally peel the flesh off them if they blow right on them long enough

I don't think the time your tank has been set up is that much of a factor to your SPS issues. I believe the notion that you have to wait 6 months or a year before you add SPS corals is based on their historical difficulty, which is no longer an issue with today's reefkeeping experience and equipment. There are certain requirements SPS corals have that must be provided, but I think you have them, except possibly high phosphate levels in your tank, which are unknown right now.

You may want to consider setting up a cheato refugium, and if you do not already, use filter socks and rinse them. This will help keep phosphates and nitrates in check via harvesting the cheato and mechanical removal via the filter socks.

Other thoughts. Depending on the type reflectors, you could get a large increase in PAR just by switching your reflectors to a quality type, if they are not already in place. The pic below is called a Spiderlight reflector, and these are notoriously inefficient and are usually sold as part of a halide retrofit. They are inexpensive, and help to keep the price of retrofit systems lower. Switching to a Lumenmax Elite or a CoralVue Lumenbright reflector can greatly increase the PAR reaching your tank and help your SPS corals a lot.

VHO lights: you might consider switching the dual bulbs out for actinics. You should be a able to meet all the daylight requirements of your corals with your halides, and you might find the tank colors a bit more pleasing with more blue in them from 4 blue VHOs vs two blue VHOs. You might also consider next bulb change to try two Radium 250 watt bulbs. These are 20 K, and may eliminate the need for any VHO supplementation, and save you some money in electricity. I use 400 watt Radiums on my tanks, paired with very efficient reflectors, and I don't need any blue light supplementation, and I have decent colors in my SPS.

Also, assuming your SPS corals are light acclimated, you may want to consider upping your halide on time to 7-8 hours. Common practice seems to be a 7-8 hour photoperiod is adequate. I use an 8 hour halide photoperiod on my tanks. 6 seems a bit short. but again, JME.

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Incredible reply, thanks so much for your input. I will store all of that in the memory bank and put some into action now.

 

[rskillz]

beccamc10;578093 wrote: someone correct me if I am wrong please, But is 8.0- 8.15 low PH for sps

I'm using Marine buffer but constantly fighting to keep it up. It always slowly drops to as low as 7.9. Maybe that could be an indicator?

 

[rskillz]

New, Arag Alive, 1-2 inch deep. Normal size, not too fine or grainy. I have a Dragon goby that slave labors cleaning it.

 

[acroholic]

beccamc10;578093 wrote: someone correct me if I am wrong please, But is 8.0- 8.15 low PH for sps

I'm using Marine buffer but constantly fighting to keep it up. It always slowly drops to as low as 7.9. Maybe that could be an indicator?

Not really, IMO. The general consensus (anecdotal) is that if your alkalinity, calcium and magnesium levels are good, then a somewhat (but not drastic) lower than normal pH is not an issue.

I was told what I just told you above, and it has not been an issue for me in growing SPS. I would still look at bugs, phosphate levels, or your lighting.