How much heat do I need?

[taftonomos]

Well, I'm going to try and keep the frag system running now.

I've made a sump cover for it, and not only is it keeping the evap down (by almost 4 gallons a day), it's keeping the tank 2 deg warmer.

Problem is, I need to heat the tank up a combined total of 17 degrees now.

No lights + no heat = 60 deg tank with the pumps running. Pretty steady even when it gets super cold outside. Might dip to 58 on the coldest nights. Eventually the basement will be finished, but for now it isn't.

I could buy a portable room heater to warm the ambient air temp in there.

Not sure what size heater I need, but a 500 watt ti heater only bumps the tank up to 64 deg. Going by that logic, it would take almost 2K watts to get the temp where I need it. That is not acceptable on the power bill at all (about a steady 30amp draw), nor do I have the power routed correctly for something like that.

If I can't fix it, I'll have to wait until the basement is finished. I can keep the ambient temp in the mid 60's and it should be easier to heat the tank up then.

 

[grouper therapy]

If you are bringing water into your facility that must be heated, you can use an electric heater for all or just a portion of your heating. For instance, you may use solar, waste heat, or room heaters first and use thermostatically controlled electric heaters as the final temperature control.

To determine the approximate size heater to order, choose ONE of the three categories … then follow the calculation.
<ol>
<li>Recirculating
In a non-flowing system, heat is only lost to the surrounding air. The temperature difference between the air ambient and the water is the biggest factor. Also, the open area of the tank, the amount of agitation, and the heat loss through the tank walls should be considered. All external pipes, filters, pumps, etc. will further cool the water.

For every 9°F (5°C) difference, there should be 4W of heat per gallon (3.8 liters) of water. Elevated, uninsulated tanks, with a large amount of surface agitation, could require as much as 12W per gallon per 9°F. For small glass aquaria, use 8W per gallon per 9°F.</li>
<li>Temperature Raising Only
Cool water is used to fill tanks and the water needs to be warmed before the fish are added. Time and ambient temperature will be considerations. For every 1,000 gallons (3800 liters), 1,200W (1.2 kw) is needed to raise the temperature 10°F (6°C) in 24 hours (this assumes ambient temp is the same as the water).</li>
<li>Flow-Through Heating
A flow-through system has cool water entering and warmed water leaving (this is very wasteful and expensive without heat exchangers). Determine the maximum gallons per minute that you expect and the greatest temperature difference.

1,000W (1 kW) will raise the temperature of 6 gallons of water (23 liters) one °F (.55°C) per minute.
Example: 6 gpm with a 10° F difference = 10 kW.

Quick Heater Sizing Guide for Non-Flow Through Calculation</li>
</ol>It's difficult to simplify something that is complicated, but use this quick reference chart to estimate the size of an electric heater.
A tank with 1,000 gallons is in a room that will stay around 60°F, and you want the water temperature to be 87°F. If 4 W per gallon are needed for every 9°F, then: DT = 27°, 27 ÷ 9 = 3, 3 x 4 W = 12 W per gallon, 12 W x 1,000 gallons = 12,000 W. Assumes one large uninsulated uncovered fish tank plus one peripheral (such as a sand filter), and a pump with no extreme water/air interface (such as splash aerator or degassing tower). Minimize heater size and power use by insulating and covering.
Follow the chart to keep the water at desired temperature, but if a few degrees temperature loss is tolerable during brief periods of cold weather, use that temperature on the chart.

For more accurate sizing, contact our technical department at 407-886-3939.

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[taftonomos]

1 window, no outside doors. I'll check the tank temp again in a few minutes and get back. It's been 58-60 for most of the winter without any heat down there.

Not too worried about the summer, lights on at night + window AC made the room nice and cool even when it was 105 outside. At night I turned on the lights and the wall/vent fan and it stayed around 81 without any AC in there. Humidifier was being emptied once a day too.

 

[taftonomos]

64.5 in the basement now, 63deg water temp

crap, this doesn't look good.

 

[taftonomos]

TAftonomos;317327 wrote: 64.5 in the basement now, 63deg water temp

crap, this doesn't look good.

If I'm doing this right, I need the room that the tank is in to be around 66 deg....if I want to run 1500 watts continuous to keep the tank at 77.

No room for error there....I don't like that (nor do I like what 1500 watts of heater will do to the electric bill.

 

[taftonomos]

TAftonomos;317332 wrote: If I'm doing this right, I need the room that the tank is in to be around 66 deg....if I want to run 1500 watts continuous to keep the tank at 77.

No room for error there....I don't like that (nor do I like what 1500 watts of heater will do to the electric bill.

Edited above post. No heater on currently in tank.

 

[taftonomos]

oops, let my membership lapes, can't edit posts anymore.

NO Heater is running in the tank at the moment. I can turn it on and let it run overnight I guess and see what I get?

 

[grouper therapy]

what temp gauge are you using? how much water volume

 

[taftonomos]

Time and temp, and the Ranco controller's display. Pretty much spot on.

Good news for me this AM. Tank temp is at 71 deg. Only the return pump (Dart seq) and a single 500 watt heater were on last night.

9 deg from the 500 watt heater. I'm thinking this is doable with 1500 watts total of heat.

Think it would be a good idea to have each heater on separate controllers to stage the heaters coming on somehow? I've got a spare ranco thats apparently not worth but $30 lol.

 

[mojo]

How much total water volume do you have?

 

[taftonomos]

If I doing this right, it's 105 per tank, and I've got a 150gallon sump. Sump is filled about 3/4.

I'd estimate 300g total.

 

[mojo]

Then I'd say check your heaters to make sure they're on. I run about 1000 watts for our 800gallons, with 600 of that in the basement, and that seems to be fine for all except the coldest nights. The nights that were in the 20's all night brought my tank temp down to ~76 degrees.

300g should be no problem for 1500w of heaters.

 

[taftonomos]

I guess the first post wasn't written clearly (Or I just plain thought you guys could read my mind.

I only have a single 500 on it. I'll order a 1K today, and should be able to run those off the 20amp circuit I ran (I hope).

 

[mojo]

I'm still surprised that 500w isn't enough, although if you're basement is 64 degrees, that's not helping. Can you insulate the basement? That'd probably be your cheapest option... just put up some batting between the studs in the room the tank is in.

Think it would be a good idea to have each heater on separate controllers to stage the heaters coming on somehow?

This is what I do - I have ~300w of heaters come on first, then a .5 degree later, I have the other 700w come on. I don't like the idea of 1000w coming on to adjust for .1 degrees...

 

[taftonomos]

The basement room that the frag tank in is finished out, drywall/insulated, etc. It's in a 1500sq ft basement that is unfinished though, without any heating/cooling.

Gets even colder down there when it's 30 outside, which is the problem.

 

[taftonomos]

what kind of controller do you run....the ranco only adjusts in 1 degree increments that I know of.

 

[mojo]

I use a Profilux. It measures/controls down to 0.1 degrees C. I don't remember what this converts to in F or what my exact numbers are- I was just using an example. I'll also be the first to admit that a 0.1 degree difference is probably inconsequential and could be chalked up to current differences, etc. However, even taking that into account, I sleep better at night knowing that the water temps are more stable rather than "all on" or "all off" for the entire degree (significant when you start to consider that we're shooting for a 3-4 degree range).

 

[taftonomos]

Well, I do have that extra single ranco controller, so I'll set up the 1K heater on it, and leave the other 500 on the other one and call it a day.

Wondering what brand of heater should I use. I think the 500 is a jailia or something like that.....

Any recommendations?

 

[mojo]

My preference http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/693/Titanium-Heaters/titanium%20heater/0">is these</a> - reasonably priced, only a heater element, and titanium encased. I don't trust anything with a thermostat in it not to fail...

I think that using two Rancos and split the heat evenly set to the same temperature would be perfect - it'd give redundancy and be just off enough so that you'd get the temperature spread out.