How quickly does ick develop?

[geno]

I saw a small and apparently healthy coral beauty at a lfs the other day. It had a very small white speck on it's tail. I don't know if it was ick or just some inconsequential speck. The fish seemed to swim around comfortably with no signs of stress. I think it had been in the tank for a few weeks. I did not ask to have him feed.

I plan to stop by again soon -- but curious from your perspective how quickly ick usually spreads.

Thanks,
-geno

 

[glxtrix]

If you look at a fish wrong, ich can form. There is a lot of unknown issues/causes/cures of ich. Tho lots of speculation. I know in my tank, any time I add a fish, there are certain fish that will get ich. All my fish are fat and healthy. I've never lots a fish to ich either. I'm a personal believer that a diet high in garlic will help fight ich. Then again I also believe that all fish carry the ich virus....just all depends on the little kicker to make it develop into more.

 

[johnr2604]

Ich can develop pretty quick. Something to think about is that Ich is always in your aquarium. Its usually stress or something that weakens the fish then they are at high risk of contracting it.

 

[xyzpdq0121]

glxtrix;170280 wrote: I'm a personal believer that a diet high in garlic will help fight ich.

Because we know garlic is abundant in the ocean for just this reason. :doh:

glxtrix;170280 wrote: Then again I also believe that all fish carry the ich virus.....

That might be true if Ich was a virus.... But alas, it is not.

johnr2604;170281 wrote: Something to think about is that Ich is always in your aquarium..

Can you show me proof of this? What study showed that Ich is always in a system, even when it was never introduced in the first place? I can think of a few studies (Noga, Gethill, and a few others) that showed just the contrary.



Listen, It should not matter if the fish in the LFS had Ich, a lot do! If you were to see a spot on ANY fish in a LFS tank, then you know that ALL the fish have been exposed. I have NEVER been to an LFS in this city and not seen Ich in their tanks. (I have not looked close at SWC yet, So Sal you are safe for now! ) So assume that ANY fish you get from a LFS has been exposed and handle the situation accordingly. QT, Dip, don't buy. Whatever your choice is, just know the truth. Now, this is not to say that Lee is not right, there are plenty of tanks that have Ich and the fish live long and healthy lives. It is just the fact that I HATE misinformation on the subject. So know the truth and make your own decision.

Beck to your original question 3-5 days and the fish should be worse. If you go back and check and the fish has lost that spot but gained one in another area, I would assume you are dealing with ich.

 

[liverock27]

glxtrix;170280 wrote: If you look at a fish wrong, ich can form. There is a lot of unknown issues/causes/cures of ich. Tho lots of speculation. I know in my tank, any time I add a fish, there are certain fish that will get ich. All my fish are fat and healthy. I've never lots a fish to ich either. I'm a personal believer that a diet high in garlic will help fight ich. Then again I also believe that all fish carry the ich virus....just all depends on the little kicker to make it develop into more.

I think you are right about all fish carrying the ich virus. I too have had small outbreaks in several of my tanks, but have not lost a fish due to it.
Saying that I still wouldn't add a fish that had signs of ich at lfs. Just asking for trouble.

 

[derek_s]

Kinda OT, but any links or info you guys use on the treatment of an ick outbreak in a reef tank?

 

[xyzpdq0121]

Just so happens you have VIP access to the best article EVER written on Ich. Written by your's truly! J/K But read

 

[drnecropolis]

I got to go with Brandon on most points.. Esp that ick is not a virus.. I have never understood where that comes from.. Its a parasite, not a virus... Hyposalinity and copper are the best courses of action.. Of course you don't want to preform either in the DT, if you decide to do hypo, please use a refractometer instead of a hydrometer, and if you go with copper do so in a tank that will be used after as a HT.. Copper has been thought to soak into silicone and leach back into water. And make sure you have a good copper test..don't just "wing it"

 

[liverock27]

Sorry OT, but I have always had a question about QT. You say in your article (which is a good one) that you keep the filter pads for the QT in your sump. if you are treating your QT tank with any chemicals or if the fish in the tank have ich or another pest, how good of an idea is this? Just a thought I have had.

 

[xyzpdq0121]

Good advice Ansley... Only one footnote to add to that, do not treat an angel with copper... Not a good mixture. (Original questions was about an angel, that is why I bring it up) My favorite across the chart treatment has to be Formalin instead of copper. Copper, as you said, leaches really bad into your QT/HT tank (I am still trying to get it out of a 29 Gal from a year ago), Copper is much more labor intensive then a good Formalin dip, Formalin is "safer"... So, I recommend a Formalin SW dip followed by a few week stay in QT under hypo conditions.

 

[xyzpdq0121]

LiveRock27;170327 wrote: Sorry OT, but I have always had a question about QT. You say in your article (which is a good one) that you keep the filter pads for the QT in your sump. if you are treating your QT tank with any chemicals or if the fish in the tank have ich or another pest, how good of an idea is this? Just a thought I have had.

You NEVER transfer the filter pad from the QT tank <u>back</u> to the display. It is a one way trip, this way, anything that is in the QT tanks stays there. This works well as long as your display tank is clean. So it is best used when you know your DT is clean and you are bringing in new fish, say from the LFS.

 

[glxtrix]

virus, parasite...oops. How bout we stone Lee for using the wrong word.

 

[xyzpdq0121]

glxtrix;170330 wrote: virus, parasite...oops. How bout we stone Lee for using the wrong word.

What, I can't give you a hard time?!? What type of crap is that?!?

 

[liverock27]

Xyzpdq0121;170329 wrote: You NEVER transfer the filter pad from the QT tank <u>back</u> to the display. It is a one way trip, this way, anything that is in the QT tanks stays there. This works well as long as your display tank is clean. So it is best used when you know your DT is clean and you are bringing in new fish, say from the LFS.

Makes since. I was just wondering because I setup a QT last week, incase I find something at Marine Fish this weekend, and I am using some tank water and the rest new saltwater, heater, and a HOB filter w/new pad and wanted to make sure it would be ready for this weekend.

 

[glxtrix]

I'm just kickin it back As far as garlic goes, yeah it's in the ocean, I throw cloves of it in there on the weekends as my side job. Who knows whether it truly works or not. There is some proof that it boosts immune systems, healthier immune system means healthier fish, means able to fight ich...least, thats my thoughts and works for me. And fortunately it does because I couldnt get my fish out of my tank to save my life....or theirs if it came down to it.

 

[drnecropolis]

Good note Brandon..slipped my mind about the angel.. Lee it wasn't directed at you.. Just a pet peeve..I see it all the time on SWF. Formailin is a million times better then copper..less chance of nuking the live stock.. Also you don't want any sand or LR in the tank you are going to be dosing just to be on the safe side.. I myself have treated my reef tank with Focus and Metronidazole.. I had great results, but I wouldn't recommend doing it to anyone, I gambled with it and got lucky!

 

[johnr2604]

Can you show me proof of this? What study showed that Ich is always in a system, even when it was never introduced in the first place? I can think of a few studies (Noga, Gethill, and a few others) that showed just the contrary.



Listen, It should not matter if the fish in the LFS had Ich, a lot do! If you were to see a spot on ANY fish in a LFS tank, then you know that ALL the fish have been exposed. I have NEVER been to an LFS in this city and not seen Ich in their tanks. (I have not looked close at SWC yet, So Sal you are safe for now! ) So assume that ANY fish you get from a LFS has been exposed and handle the situation accordingly. QT, Dip, don't buy. Whatever your choice is, just know the truth. Now, this is not to say that Lee is not right, there are plenty of tanks that have Ich and the fish live long and healthy lives. It is just the fact that I HATE misinformation on the subject. So know the truth and make your own decision.

[/QUOTE] You just proved it yourself in your last paragraph. I personally take alot of studies as well as statistics with a grain of salt. For every study that "proves" something there is a study that "disproves" it also. Just look at the global warming debate. Also almost all scientific studies are done in sterile environments which dosn't equate to the real world. Just ask any scientist or engineer if even though that math works will it always work in real life. this is why I dont site studies and just speek from my expierience that I have gathered in the 20 plus years I have done this. There is still alot we dont know and at best, most of these are theory's. Just like you stated almost every LFS has ich in there system. So unless you are treating everything you put in your system including LR then chances are its in your system. So call it misinformation if you like but that has been my expierience.

I am in no way saying that studies dont provide really good info, but I believe you just have to take what you can get out of it then come to your own conclusion. I am a firm believer in a QT and that reducing the amount of stress your fish has getting introduced into a new environment and while its inhabiting your system does more than anything to help prevent outbreaks.

 

[FutureInterest]

 

[geno]

Wow -- this really generated an excellent discussion.

After reading through the thread I came away with a greater appreciation for the risk I take making any purchase.

I do not yet have a QT set up -- so that will be job 1 -- ASAP.

Many of you know about the huge sale planned for this weekend at Marine Fish off Johnson Ferry. I was there today and not only are they well stocked already -- they are getting shipments everyday this week except tomorrow. Everything in the store will be 1/2 off -- fish, corals, dry goods. My major concern will be buying fish that are so stressed out that they are likely to die in my tank (remember, I'm really new at this). Those of you with a lot of experience might find the sale very appealing.

Thanks for all the comments regarding Ich.
-gene

 

[drnecropolis]

I'm a big fan of qt's... I went to walmart and bought a 29(had a 10) gallon starter kit and bam a qt tank..I know that you want that new fish in the DT, but sometimes waiting a few more weeks will save you lots of money,time,and heartache..