How quickly does Matrix work?

[newbie20]

Consolidated two tanks lately, and nitrates have been on the rise. Did a water change over the weekend, and doing another this evening as they're still high. I'm also going to incorporate a reactor with Matrix tonight, as I've read how many have had success with it. It's the big Reef Octopus reactor (I think up to 475 gallons - I have a 150 gallon) and it'll be run by a Mag 9.

How soon should I expect to see nitrates start to decline? I once heard that other de-nitrators can take up to a couple of months to start being effective.

If it does take a while, any other products recommended to lower nitrates more quickly? In the meantime, I'm going to cut down on feeding and do water changes.

Any advice would be helpful.

Thanks,
Brian

 

[johniii]

It could take a couple weeks or more. Some companies make nitrate removing filter pads and media.
If it was me I would just step up the water changes. 20% a day till they are at a level you would like.
It shouldn't take more than 15minutes a day to do water changes. Besides mixing the salt.

Sent from my XT912 using Tapatalk

 

[morganatlanta]

Matrix is like adding lots of (dead) live rock. It looks to me like pumice stone gravel. Some pieces will actually float until it soaks up the water. It's not some magic substance. It is just pourous stone that provides a lot of good growing surface for regular nitrifying bacteria, so I would expect it to take a couple months to become really effective, and then it isn't going to do anything for your phosphates, so you'll still need another export mechanism. Not to dis Matrix, I use it myself, but it isn't a magic bullet.

 

[darrrenjmartin]

<span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: Verdana">I thought the matrix was hogwash. I had some luck with a spiral reactor years ago. </span></span>
<span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: Verdana">Your looking at this wrong i think. I use a small recycled table fountain pump for constant slooooooow flow. 5-10 gallon an hour. I use a little fishes on a 90. It took three month for my reactor to cycle .your nitrates need to be 10 or lower for it to work. it will only cycle under good tank conditions. It didnt cycle at first 3 months. I dosed with vodka for a few weeks. Still hovering between 5-10 with a lot of weekly water changes, I started getting a clear gel slim in my sand bottom. I stopped the vodka, removed the sand and just gave up that it would work. I left the reactor in the tank running. I resigned to the 5-10, and would keep a good CUC. I stopped testing and did weekly water changes. The tank was looking good. I tested a few months later and my nitrates were &#8220;0&#8221; and continue to stay low. Mag 9 is way way way to big. Youn only need a drizzle </span></span>
<span style="font-family: Calibri"><span style="font-size: 13px"> </span></span>

 

[jennm]

It does take time. It's biological filtration not mechanical or chemical, which are 'faster' but temporary, whereas Matrix will work more or less indefinitely.

Slower flow is better, I agree with darrrenjmartin that a Mag 9 is way too much.

We used to soak Matrix in some Stability before placing it in a system, to give it a bit of a kick-start.

Jenn

 

[newbie20]

I was thinking the mag9 for two reasons:
<ul>
<li>The reactor is huge, and the manufacturer recommended flow rate for the reactor is 790-920gph; however, it is technically a biobellet reactor, so maybe that's why the high flow recommendation? I'm assuming based on your input that Matrix requires a much lower rate? What's the recommended gph?</li>
<li>I thought I saw a thread once where Jef4y and Acroholic recommended the more flow the better for matrix, but I may be confusing it with another concept/product.</li>
</ul>Thanks for the continued input.

 

[bulkrate]

Matrix and most other medias that advertise denitrifying properties depend on low, constant flow...the Denitrate product specifically states less than 50 gallons per hour to allow for the formation of anaerobic zones within the media. The larger piece size of Matrix and the PondMatrix allow for this to happen in higher flow, but I'm betting the MAG9 will blast water through it too fast by several orders of magnitude.

Most folks I've seen get good results by filling a baffle in their sump with it, or sandwiching a mesh bag of it in later floss stages. A reactor would likely be ideal, but only if you can dial the flow way down to 50-100 gallons per hour. Directions also state that you should get nitrate levels down around 20-30ppm before relying on this stuff to help keep it in check - water changes are the fastest/cheapest way to accomplish this.

Jenn - that's a really good idea about presoaking with a biological culture... have to try that sometime when I need to set up a quickie QT/hospital tank.

 

[newbie20]

Thanks guys. You saved me some unnecessary plumbing purchases related to the mag9. I've got some smaller pumps that i will use.

Any thoughts on Purigen? Maybe I'll search/start a different thread.

 

[jdavid]

I was going to say.. It is just a stone with a large surface area for denitrifying bacteria. I would put it in a 5g bucket with tank water an stability to give it a kick start, just as Jenn says.

 

[jennm]

These little tricks I've learned over the years

The higher the flow, the larger the particle size you should use when it comes to Matrix (or Denitrate) - it's the same material, Denitrate is smaller, then Matrix, then Pond Matrix. The smaller material gives you more net surface area - imagine a gallon jar, and filling it with marbles, versus golf balls, there will be less spaces between the smaller particles, so you'd get better denitrification with Denitrate, but you would need slower flow through it, so go with the particle size that best suits your application/space/flow.

Purigen is a different thing altogether. Seachem refers to it as a "protein skimmer in a bag", it removes various organics, and it's good stuff, but works very differently from matrix. You can also regenerate Purigen using bleach - there are instructions on the packaging as to how to do that.

You can use Purigen if you're using Matrix, just not in the same reactor etc.

You can also use "seeded" Matrix for a quick QT setup - if you have the Matrix already established in your DT, you can move some to a QT to help stabilize it, biologically, in a fairly short time. You'd still need to keep a close eye on water quality but it's great for that.

Jenn

 

[willie1983]

JennM;907069 wrote: These little tricks I've learned over the years

The higher the flow, the larger the particle size you should use when it comes to Matrix (or Denitrate) - it's the same material, Denitrate is smaller, then Matrix, then Pond Matrix. The smaller material gives you more net surface area - imagine a gallon jar, and filling it with marbles, versus golf balls, there will be less spaces between the smaller particles, so you'd get better denitrification with Denitrate, but you would need slower flow through it, so go with the particle size that best suits your application/space/flow.

Purigen is a different thing altogether. Seachem refers to it as a "protein skimmer in a bag", it removes various organics, and it's good stuff, but works very differently from matrix. You can also regenerate Purigen using bleach - there are instructions on the packaging as to how to do that.

You can use Purigen if you're using Matrix, just not in the same reactor etc.

You can also use "seeded" Matrix for a quick QT setup - if you have the Matrix already established in your DT, you can move some to a QT to help stabilize it, biologically, in a fairly short time. You'd still need to keep a close eye on water quality but it's great for that.

Jenn

So can I use both in a canister filter?

 

[ringo®]

WILLIE1983;907073 wrote: So can I use both in a canister filter?

Purigen is super fine. It would probably need to be in a media bag.

 

[atmercure]

I see your in tucker. Your close to one of our fish stores and sponsors, "The fish store" by PDK airport. Go in and talk to kevin. hes the owner and very very helpful. He helped me with my 210 which has been high in phosphates and nitrates were around 10. He got me using biopellets which i had never considered. been online now for 4 months. phosphates are .04 using a hannah photometer and nitrates are down to 2 and still falling. during this time, kevin has always returned my calls while using these as i had many questions. great guy and store. just another option