How should we conduct contests?

[ActiveAngel]

If you have suggestions for process improvements, we want to hear it! This conversation has unfortunately previously hijacked other threads... but it deserves its own space, so here it is!

No system is perfect, and we should be able to talk about the pros and cons, and make decisions to try to make it the best it can be. I know some people can get passionate about this, and I dont wish for this space to be hostile towards anyone. But would love to talk about some ideas!

For this thread, let's:
1) flush out some voting options
-How each system would work
-Pros and Cons
-ways we can mitigate Cons
-propose questions (and potential answers) in order to define each option

2) After reviewing the details, we can post a poll with the options for people to vote on.

@dball711 @Hunna @Jikkermanccini @billyocean I remember yall were interested in this last year, so I'm tagging you guys in case you wish to contribute. But no pressure, either way.

This may be a bit cumbersome in the present, but it may hopefully alleviate some concerns and stresses later.
...oh, and if you think I should add anything to this thread's scope, let me know and I'll edit this post, but I think this may be helpful.

 

[ActiveAngel]

Option 1) Using emojis for a popular vote

This may be the most straightforward option. In the example of photo contests, whichever photo has the most likes/loves/etc at the expiration time... wins the contest!

Do we weight the different emoji's differently?
Is a "love" worth more than a "like"? If so, by how much?
...Likewise for the other emoji responses?
Do only supporting members get a vote? or everyone?

Pros:

• Entirely Transparent
• Very fast and easy to implement and choose a winner

Cons:

• Bias for the first few posters, regardless of photo. The first posts not only have the most time to receive votes (all month), but also the ones at the top of the page get the most attention. This is not to say that the first poster will win... but a great photo at the top of the page may receive 15 votes, while an equally good one at the bottom or on the next page receives 5.
• Bias for posters with more followers. IMO, this is a minor point... but still should be acknowledged.
• Increased probability of repeat winners each month, due to the race to post the first good photo early on.
• Potential for cheating if users create multiple (non-supporting member) accounts to get in an extra 2-3 votes.

Let me know if yall can think of any new Pros or Cons you want added... or strikethrough existing ones.

 

[ActiveAngel]

Option 2) Via contest committee

Not as straightforward or fast... but doesn't take too much time.
1) Committee Reviewer (one person) on the contest committee reviews and logs all submissions, and checks submissions for eligibility (e.g., supporting member, and appropriateness to the contest, which is usually not an issue).
2) Said Reviewer narrows down the scope of photos to the finalists photographs. Usually, out of 20-40 photos, there are 3-10 that are a cut above the rest.
3) These finalists photos are shared with the committee (without the username ID)... The committee may choose to add photos if they think a worthy one was left out, and/or discuss.
4) The committee votes on the agreed final 3-10 photos. Popular vote wins.

Pros

• All photos submitted within the timeframe have equal opportunity to win, regardless of posting order or date.
• Voters have opportunity to discuss and vote on photo characteristics, regardless of other factors that get emojis
  • (e.g., a lesser quality photo of a ultra rare/eye-catching coral may get a lot of votes... but then it's almost a "cool coral" contest rather than a photo contest)

Cons

• Not as fast as Option 1
  • mitigated a little by having 1 person do the initial narrowing
• Appears non-transparent for anyone that doesn't want to get involved
  • procedures are open and published. Everyone is allowed in the contest committee.
• Committee members, especially with a small committee, have a conflict of interest, and should not be eligible.

 

[ActiveAngel]

Credit to @Jikkermanccini
Everything can be edited here.

Option 3) 2-Stage Public Voting
Similar to via contest committee.
1) Committee Reviewer (one person) on the contest committee reviews and logs all submissions, and checks submissions for eligibility (e.g., supporting member, and appropriateness to the contest, which is usually not an issue).
(optional step) Said Reviewer narrows down the scope of photos to the finalists photographs. Usually, out of 20-40 photos, there are 3-10 that are a cut above the rest.
2) These finalists photos are posted to a online poll (without the username ID)
3) Popular vote wins

Questions
Do we post all all photos? I think we should with this option.
Does everyone get a vote? or just supporting members?
How long to conduct the poll? maybe 5 days?
Do we have someone willing to download and post all 20-40 photos, without User IDs to remove some bias, and create each poll?
How can we use this to our advantage so that committee members are still eligible with the conflict-of-interest?

Pros

• Removes most of the bias from option 1
• Maintains transparency

Cons

• Requires more time and effort.

 

[ActiveAngel]

... you may also propose new options. And I can add or edit the placeholders above, as we start to have an agreement on how we define each option.

Additionally, if yall think we should split an option into two unique differences, we can do that too.

 

[Jikkermanccini]

I think there should be a selection of 5 by the committee, then the popular vote from that group to decide the winner. Similar to how R2R runs their photo contests. I also like the idea of purely popular vote, removes some of the need for extra staff/volunteers and prevents situations like Dball's shrooms last year.

 

[Hunna]

I’d say having board members or “committee” (whichever it ends up being) go through the entries and select a top 3/5/whatever is reasonable compared to the number of entries, then have the members vote on the top few selected. A combination of the two could potential limit the cons of both being done separately.

If just a committee votes, favoritism could play a huge part (not saying it ever did) and just being told the answer is 12 without ever seeing the math of how one got there isn’t very fun for the participants that didn’t win.

On the other hand, just letting us hooligans vote could lead to other problems. A committee to weed out pictures that don’t fit the criteria for the contest and picking the better of the submitted options, then allowing a vote to determine the actual winner, to me, feels the fairest.

Maybe even doing something like 2 prizes: one for the committee winner, and then the top however many get opened up to be voted on and there is a popular vote favorite. It would be neat whenever the two lined up, and maybe a “super prize” or something could happen.

 

[Rainblood]

I think there should be a selection of 5 by the committee, then the popular vote from that group to decide the winner. Similar to how R2R runs their photo contests. I also like the idea of purely popular vote, removes some of the need for extra staff/volunteers and prevents situations like Dball's shrooms last year.

I like this but in reverse. Top 5 photos by popular vote and then a committee votes on a winner. Single prize.

I think that’s a happy medium…you can never please everyone but it also prevents the whole camel being a horse designed by a committee syndrome

 

[ActiveAngel]

Ok, @hzheng33 initial info is provided... Make your post! Or feel free to reopen your initial post and edit if you wish. I found out how to swap up Option 3 so we at least have the first 3 options together.

I'm happy to see feedback already rolling in! I may not be logging into ARC everyday... (i may be about to lose my career; just not enough time to help everyone and spread myself too thin)... but I will read and update the above placeholder options with whatever your conversations results. I'll be efficient with my time here.

Maybe we can post all flushed out options for voting in a couple weeks. Hold the poll for several days. And whichever is chosen, we will implement for this months contest!

 

[york1]

So no fights to the death??

 

[ActiveAngel]

So no fights to the death??

Maybe Option 4?

 

[Jikkermanccini]

So no fights to the death??

We'd end up with the same few winners every time...

 

[Hunna]

Option 5 then should be a Pokémon/yugioh/magic best of 3.

 

[ActiveAngel]

@Hunna and @Rainblood
good points... I think between those two, I would lean toward committee narrows it down first (to allow late posters equal opportunity), and then public vote of final contestants afterwards. But I understand the other perspective too.

 

[york1]

We'd end up with the same few winners every time...

 

[ActiveAngel]

Goodnight guys .Please keep the conversation going over the next several days!

I would love to comprehensively define option 1, in order to make it the best that it can be! Whenever we put it to public vote, I want all sides to be well-represented in text... and I know some people do sincerely prefer just a straight public vote using the emojis/likes system.

 

[billyocean]

View attachment 86619

The other man just decided he felt otherwise that day...no deaths..but indeed....one man left.

 

[billyocean]

@Hunna and @Rainblood
good points... I think between those two, I would lean toward committee narrows it down first (to allow late posters equal opportunity), and then public vote of final contestants afterwards. But I understand the other perspective too.

I like choosing a top 5 or so then allow everyone to vote on a winner from there in a poll. Perhaps do a limit where someone can only win once or twice a year to give everyone a chance at it. As far as supporting members only voting..I dunno..I feel like it doesn't matter if others vote as well. If someone wants to recruit votes then so be it..lol..its a picture contest..."locks are for honest people"

 

[Hunna]

Maybe instead of only supporting members, the account has to be at least 30 days old, or have X amount of activity on the forums, for the vote to count? Just to stop fake accounts, to some extent.

 

[Cook]

I like the discussion so far. I agree with @hzheng33 that we need to keep this as simple as possible. The contest(s) should be open to all members.
Contest committee - I'm hopeful that this could be comprised of 5 members if an option is chosen where the committee has the final vote.
Contest prizes - unless donated by a non supporting individual or a business, are purchased with club funds and 99% of our funds come from supporting members. If there is an option chosen that results in a member vote - it needs to be supporting members. This also virtually eliminates any idea of fake accounts -if that were to become a concern.