Hypo for ich-- move clean up crew?

[morganatlanta]

So despite my best efforts with QT, I seem to have acquired ich. I lost a trigger and my puffer seems very prone to it. Other fish, tangs included, seem okay, but to really knock it out, I'd like to lower the salinity in my tanks to 1.010 for the recommended 30+ days.

I don't have any SPS, only some anemones, softies and gorgonians, which I can easily move to a smaller tank with standard salinity for the time, but my question is on the clean up crew. I have snails and hermits, urchins, starfish and sea cucumbers. Can any of them handle 1.010 water for a month or do they all need to move to the side tank as well?

 

[ringo®]

MorganAtlanta;1039936 wrote: I have snails and hermits, urchins, starfish and sea cucumbers. Can any of them handle 1.010 water for a month or do they all need to move to the side tank as well?

I highly doubt it.

 

[stacy22]

1.08-1.09 is the recommended specific gravity level for Cryptocaryon. It should remain at that level for a minimum of 4 weeks AFTER the last visible spot of ich is seen. Salinity should be slowly raised and fish monitored for 4 MORE weeks. Also, it is critical to be accurate with measuring specific gravity because if it rises more than 1.09 the time clock starts all over. Hyposalinity can rid a tank of Cryptocaryon but it is not always effective, however, as there are hypo-resistant strains of ich around.

Lower salinity will likely kill your inverts.

Tank transfer is the simplest way to rid tank inhabitants of ich.

 

[morganatlanta]

Tank transfer with a dozen fish doesn't sound so simple, and you still need to leave the display fallow and a place to put those fish during the fallow period. Lowering the salinity in the display seems simpler to me, if you can move everything out that will have problems with the lowered salinity.

 

[bulkrate]

As stacy22 pointed out, your corals will most likely die if you try to run a course of hyposalinity in your display tank with them present. Anything below 1.015 for any appreciable period of time is too low for most soft corals & anemones, and most of the hardier inverts have issues once you get down below 1.012.

Since you're not going to be using a copper-based medication I'd just go the route you seem to be leaning towards - move the stuff that can't actively avoid you and lacks a spine into a temporary tank kept fallow but at a normal s.g. and do the hyposalinity with your fish in the main tank.

 

[russ-iv]

hypo is a temporary quickfix for a big issue.

subjecting an entire display is not wise.

drop the bad egg in to a tap water tank for 15 minutes. watch the stuff drop off and then put him back in the dt after you (slowly) bring it back up to salinity. osmotic shock is what makes hypo treatment effective. not conditioning.

 

[morganatlanta]

Russ-IV;1040009 wrote: hypo is a temporary quickfix for a big issue.

subjecting an entire display is not wise.

drop the bad egg in to a tap water tank for 15 minutes. watch the stuff drop off and then put him back in the dt after you (slowly) bring it back up to salinity. osmotic shock is what makes hypo treatment effective. not conditioning.

It certainly is a good thing to do a freshwater dip to help an infected fish out in the short term, but I don't see how that is a solution. If there's ich in the tank, then any fish could be harboring it. Just because the puffer is the only one showing spots, doesn't mean he is the only one with it currently or there aren't cysts on the sandbed and rocks waiting to emerge.

 

[russ-iv]

MorganAtlanta;1040021 wrote: It certainly is a good thing to do a freshwater dip to help an infected fish out in the short term, but I don't see how that is a solution. If there's ich in the tank, then any fish could be harboring it. Just because the puffer is the only one showing spots, doesn't mean he is the only one with it currently or there aren't cysts on the sandbed and rocks waiting to emerge.

agreed. however the amount of ich that dies from lack of "find the host" is significant. i had a regal tang with some ich and you know what i did?

...

nothing.

he just recovered.

worst case scenario is they get plastered with the stuff. huffs at the surface and u scoop him out. hypo him. and put him in qt for a couple weeks.

if the tank is small enough for ich to easily find it's host you have to qt. it is just simple mathematics that the ich will eventually find the host they need within 24 hours. if the tank is large. you can worry less.

 

[stacy22]

Russ-IV;1040009 wrote: hypo is a temporary quickfix for a big issue.

subjecting an entire display is not wise.

drop the bad egg in to a tap water tank for 15 minutes. watch the stuff drop off and then put him back in the dt after you (slowly) bring it back up to salinity. osmotic shock is what makes hypo treatment effective. not conditioning.

Cryptocaryon</em> buries underneath the scales. Freshwater dips are ineffective at removing these protists.

 

[russ-iv]

stacy22;1040023 wrote: Cryptocaryon</em> buries underneath the scales. Freshwater dips are ineffective at removing these protists.

those are only the ones 7 days in the process. the majority that will kill the affected fish are the multiplied ones yet to bury. not the ones already doing the damage

fish will tell you when they need help and stress you out. (and themselves). you arent on death's door unless you ignore it. it generally takes a week or so for ich to kill it's host after stress has been shown to the aquarist. least ime.

sensitive fish will be less forgiving. eg: the CBB

 

[stacy22]

Russ-IV;1040026 wrote: those are only the ones 7 days in the process. the majority that will kill the affected fish are the multiplied ones yet to bury. not the ones already doing the damage

fish will tell you when they need help and stress you out. (and themselves). you arent on death's door unless you ignore it. it generally takes a week or so for ich to kill it's host after stress has been shown to the aquarist. least ime.

sensitive fish will be less forgiving. eg: the CBB

I teach microbiology so I understand the lifecycle of Cryptocaryon</em>. Scientific research shows that freshwater dips are basically ineffective.

 

[russ-iv]

stacy22;1040036 wrote: I teach microbiology so I understand the lifecycle of Cryptocaryon</em>. Scientific research shows that freshwater dips are basically ineffective.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2004/2/mini">http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2004/2/mini</a>[/QUOTE]

you can show me whatever you want. but there are posts on this forum (with pictures) that say you are wrong

ich will die within 2 mm of burial of the scales of it's host. the fish not only has to use osmosis to balance itself but also it's infection which becomes steril.

i am just an engineer btw

i am actually surprised a self proclaimed biologist would spread misinformation like this

edit: i just skimmed your citation and it agrees with what i stated. exposed trophonts die to osmotic shock

 

[russ-iv]

stacy. i will end this debate just by you stating hyposalinity doesnt do anything for ich.

you are a microbiologist with numerous sources. i will not need to go any further by you stating simply. "hypo salinity for ich does not work". forget pictures or any other evidence.

and ill leave it at that

 

[russ-iv]

stacy22;1040023 wrote: Cryptocaryon</em> buries underneath the scales. Freshwater dips are ineffective at removing these protists.

actually this is enough for me.