I need help with sps

snowmansnow

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sometimes we have to swallow our pride and admit we don’t know what’s going on.

this is something that will happen, go away then happen again and I can’t for the LIFE of me figure out what’s going on.

thisbis a slow necrosis and it leaves the skeleton WHITE. At the tissue line you can actually shake off tissue. I’ve looked for pests tested everything I know to test and I just don’t know.



This problem has made me start buying LpS! Gasp! I’ve had sps success b fore but I’ve lost my blue thumb.

my PH DOES stay a little low at around 8.19 but it’s stable.

Alk is 8.0 with Fritz Reef pro salt

temp is on the cool side at 77-80

i put the filter on the pic to better illustrate wha

any help a appreciated. I need this solved so I can sleep



 
Btw this ALWAYS happens from the bottom up. Never from the tips ......
 
Hey Brandon, the temp and ph look fine. I keep mine at 78 and ph seldom ever gets to 8.2. I dont remember what you are doing for export but maybe it's working to good. What are your other parameters?

Brett and I were just talking about nutrients. I tend to keep my system a little dirtier and as a result I'm usually dealing with cyano a few times a year. (I'm just finishing knocking it back now) He said I'm bound to have bigger problems down the road. From what I've read there are far more problems from too low of no3 and po4.

Also do you dose any microelements? Maybe have a Triton or ATI test done. It will give you q different look at the overall system.
 
Ive been reading some of the leading experts are recently finding success with a higher alk level in the 10 to 11 range with slightly elevated nutient levels.  They also say if you run a ULNS then you want to keep a lower alk level closer to natual sea water.

Now with my system, (which runs a slightly elevated nutrient level) if my alk drops by accident (to the 7.5 range), I will start to see stn on a few sensitive sps colonies.  Once I raise Alk back up to 9dkh then the recession stops and it begins recovering.

But, as Adam said if you run slightly elevated nutrients you can run into issues such as, Algea stunted growth and bland coloring.
 
I been thinking this through, and hearing lots of folks with suggestions and I feel this is an ALK issue.  I do run a very clean tank, always have, and thus the low ALK. I'm also not BLASTING par any more, so that also fits the mold.  I could probably get it up around 10 and maintain that level without changing a lot, but much past that and I'll need to change NO3 and PAR levels  (and thats just more dosing and new lamps haha).

As far as the other parameters go I'll need to test them later today, however I don't feel any of those key elements are out of place. I also talked to a few reefers on the phone yesterday and the common thread here seems to be a concern over ALK.

I've grown SPS with a CONSTANT ALK of 6, so I'll contend that 8 is fine for SPS. Heck, even 7 is fine for SPS, but if there is any sort of swing downward it doesn't leave any room, whereas an alk of 10 or 11 leaves plenty of drop in the equation. The key is consistency, and for some reason something somewhere is monkeying with that on this tank.

Keep the ideas coming, it will eventually get figured out and I'll slap my head and thing to myself; "duh!".
 
As Adam suggested you may want to break down and get a triton test kit sent off.  They test for everything.  :)
 
Commenting to follow along.

Since I have our 120 completely up and running - I've added some SPS to our life forms and I'm sure I'll struggle to get them growing.

@bcavalli & @anit77. - when you guys reference dirty and higher nutrients - I know you're talking about nitrates & phosphates - but what are your actual numbers?

I'm seeing some loss of color on a few pieces - they've only been in the tank for about 3 weeks. Some newer since they came home from the expo.

Temp is very stable and runs from 77.9 to 78.9

PH stays between 7.65 & 7.85  (pretty sure I need to recalibrate probe - mainly been watching for stability)

NO3 - have to confirm, late last week was still measuring zero but I've upped feeding, added a couple more fish and slowed down the denitritor so I'm hoping to have something measurable - will test again this afternoon.

PO4. - was also at zero - same story as NO3 - will test again this afternoon.

ALK is fluctuating a little -  from 7.5 - 8.3 - mainly because I'm still monkeying with AWC daily volume.

Cal hs been pretty steady at around 440

MG has been pretty steady at around 1450

Lighting over a 4' 120 = 2 Kessil 360WE both on a 4 hour ramp from 0% - 60%  then a 4 hour ramp down from 60% - 0%. Also running 4 T5 Actinic at full intensity for 4 hours. T5's are 2 54W Actinic Blue and 2 54W Aquablue Coral.
 
I use Elos and Hanna Checkers this mornings results were.

My phosphates jumped a bit due to my RO filters needed to be changed.  I tested RO water and confirmed phosphates were passing through.  Leo you can up your feeding to compensate for the ULN or turn off your denitrator.  Just a thought.

PO4 = .25

NO3 = 8

Alk = 9.0dkh

Calcium = 450

Mag = 1375

Salinity = 1.025

 
Thanks for the clarification @bcavalli

Just did a full set of tests - and yeah, I'm gonna need to up the food. The denitritor is turned down almost as slow as it can go (without filling the entire house and downwind parts of the neighborhood with a wonderful sulphur smell).

NO3 - Zero (Red Sea algae kit)

PO4 - .04 (Red Sea algae kit)

Salinity - 35 on pinpoint meter

Alk - 7.7  (Hanna) (just manually dosed 50 ml of Red Sea so I'll see how much that brings it up. Don't want to do more than that in a day for sure)

Cal - 545 (Hanna) (yowsa - the Red Sea Coral Pro Salt)

Mg - 1440 (Salifert)

PH - 7.8

 
Brandon, if you're going to raise the ALK maybe shoot for the 9 range to start. It's just a slight adjustment from where you are now and if your NO3 and PO4 are at or near zero it won't be another shock to them and cause burnt tips. Don't want them getting hit at both ends.

I dose some Kent and Brightwell products. With the Kent it's Strontium & Molybdenum. Brightwell it's either Replenish or Koralcolor, every other week. So one week it's one or the other. I also dose their Ferrion every other week and a few drops of BoroChrom once a month. All dosing, no matter what it is, is done at half the recommended rate. I back this all up with a Triton test every 3 to 4 months. During the last 2 months I really neglected the system during a big remodel project at the house. Tonight will be 2 weeks since I started to attack cyano and will be my 3rd water change in that time. It's all cleared up now and the tanks look great. Dan was having issues with color and I don't remember if there was tissue loss or not. But after starting to dose micro's everything got better for him. He doesn't do water changes very often though, so it's even more important for him to dose. I have a Triton test ready to go and I'm going to send it off next Monday. The next one I do I'm seriously thinking about trying ATI's new test. They will do you're RO water as well, for less money to boot. Would be nice just to verify that all is good there too.

Leo, I like to keep my NO3 between 3 & 8 and PO4 between .03 and .06. I imagine things were a bit higher than that recently but I haven't tested since February. If your PH is really that low then it's a problem. you should rule that out soon. The other stuff looks inline to slightly high (other than the Alk which is good with the low nutrients), but not a problem. If you see a rise in NO3 & PO4 then a slight rise in Alk will help. My system usually runs 8.5 to 9.2. On the lights, I don't run any full Actinic T5's. I use 3 Blue+ and one Purple+ in the front pair. They're on 4.5hrs a day. But my led's do have 420 & 395 in them.

I'm by no means an expert, most of you have been keeping tanks a lot longer than me. June will be 2yrs. When I first started I couldn't keep a Zoa to same my a$$, they would close up and melt away. After the first year that part got a lot better and now every Zoa I put in the system thrives. With sticks, the only thing I've lost is from fish or snails knocking them over. I don't know if I've been extremely lucky or the sheer amount of water I have has helped avoid massive swings. I do notice things do tend to happen pretty slowly. The 2 biggest problems I've had, other than Cyano, was a Kalk dump about a year ago and Monti Nudi's. Didn't lose anything with those. One Monti is still in the QT tank but the other is well on it's way to rebounding. I will say the micro dosing really does seem to help but without doing some testing you don't know what to add more of. If neither of you are going to go that route then going back to the good ole kiss method is the best bet. Weekly water changes and try to get at least some detectable nutrients.
 
Thanks guys - never did I think I would ever be worried about low nitrates. I saw people talking about it but usually ignored it since I was never below 60 and that was right after a 20% water change in my previous tank. Got tired of fighting it and trying to address with water changes so built the denitritor and HOLY COW does that thing work. Took 4 - 6 weeks to get going but once it gets going - it just flat out works. I haven't dozed any carbon source in 2 weeks - and only one time the week before did I add any source of carbon.

Currently my bio load is pretty low - but I do feed plenty. Current fish are: 2.5" lightning maroon, 3" yellow corris wrasse, 3" kole tang, 2 purple filefish, a few random snails and very small hermits.

I'm feeding a roughly a half tablespoon of Rods daily, plus every other day or every third day at least 6 spoons of reef frenzy.  Once or twice a week I'll substitute pellets for the frozen. Also started throwing some photo from FeedMe in a couple times a week but just started that about a week ago.
 
Here's a crappy shot of the WD a month after I got it.

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alt="20180424_143027" />

This is last week.

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alt="20180411_205132-01" />
 
To offer some input into the NO3 variable. I've also found that SOME NO3 is better than zero NO3. In the past I have used NaNO3 to raise levels. I believe it is a safer alternative to the PONO3 that some use because the other element involved is sodium (and well.... salt water).

I'm really excited to get ahold of a new apex brain so I can get the trident later this year. I'll be VERY interested in how my alk swings within a 24 hour period.
 
"Brandon, if you’re going to raise the ALK maybe shoot for the 9 range to start. It’s just a slight adjustment from where you are now and if your NO3 and PO4 are at or near zero it won’t be another shock to them and cause burnt tips. Don’t want them getting hit at both ends."



_____

I'm going to go this route, and hopefully allow myself some buffer in case the alk does swing when I'm not looking:)

BTW its great to see a thread get some traffic.

Keep it coming
 
BTW its great to see a thread get some traffic.

Keep it coming
Me too!!! I try to contributing when I can. Just been crazy busy since the beginning of the year. Work is nuts, with all the construction in the southeast we are selling metric manure tons of screws. Yes, plural lol. We're averaging roughly 650,000lbs a month right now (That's 295 metric tons!!!). Been doing this since 1992 and I've never seen it like this before.

With your system. Along with the Alk increase it can't hurt to add some
25 every other day and I'm not anywhere near that myself. A 250ml bottle of either product is no more than $12 at Marine Depot. If not either of those, Red Sea has a line for this too.
 
I just tested alk and cal. 9.63 & 401. Alk is a little higher than normal but that could be due the a chemiclean treatment. 48hrs is up at 8pm or so and I'm changing water at around 10pm.

Not bad for no testing in 10 to 12 weeks. My Apex had to be factory reset in that span from corruption, I lost all the previous test data... sigh. But I remember where things were.

I'm going to run the full gamut on Thursday, so I'll see where everything else is then.
 
Goluet...

Brandon, you mentioned you have had success before with sps, was that in the same current set up? Or are you working with a new system? If new how long has it been up and running?——————————

the curewnt system has been up about 2 years. My previous system was my sps tank. We moved so... had to restart
 
I struggled with sps just until recently and would have frags RTN. I mostly blame that on my system being immature (less than a year old, started with dry rock). Doesn't sound like that's an issue in your case.
 
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