Is the fish doctor in?

[grayskwerel]

Can someone tell me what this is that's growin in my tank... I think it is brown algae. What about my emperor, can anyone tell me what these patches or blotches are all over him and how to prevent them? Looks like he is scratching on the rocks but then some are just round spots. Had 2 damsels that were breathing heavy for a few days and then died. Tank is a 90 gallon FOWLR about 7 weeks old. Nitrites and Ammonia are 0. Nitrates are about 15. PH is 8.0. Alk is 4 meq/l which I think is about 11 dkh. Lights are T5 actinic blue and 20K daylight. Have the emperor and 6 small damsels in the tank now. No sump at the moment. Have a Fluval 403 canister running and pumping back in at the surface as well as a Sealife Systems HOB 75 Skimmer.

http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i456/grayskwerel/DSCN1073.jpg?t=1302157191">http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i456/grayskwerel/DSCN1073.jpg?t=1302157191</a>
[IMG]http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i456/grayskwerel/DSCN1074.jpg?t=1302157293">http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i456/grayskwerel/DSCN1074.jpg?t=1302157293</a>
[IMG]http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i456/grayskwerel/DSCN1073.jpg?t=1302157370">http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i456/grayskwerel/DSCN1073.jpg?t=1302157370</a>
[IMG]http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i456/grayskwerel/DSCN1072.jpg?t=1302157426">http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i456/grayskwerel/DSCN1072.jpg?t=1302157426</a>

 

[sonofdagon]

Your tank hasn't had time to "season" yet. 7 weeks is not a very long. Too many fish in too short a time. IMO slow down on the stocking and get rid of the canister.

 

[texhorns98]

Are you planning on upgrading? That angel is gonna get huge!

 

[grayskwerel]

texhorns98;633674 wrote: Are you planning on upgrading? That angel is gonna get huge!

Most likely, but not anytime soon. Will take him awhile to outgrow this tank.

 

[jennm]

Temperature and specific gravity?

The algae is likely diatoms, which occur when a new tank starts to find its equilibrium. They'll pass and they aren't harmful.

That fish, on the other hand, is in a world of hurt. I can't quite tell what's wrong, but something is definitely wrong. Its eyes look clear in the photo, but when you look closely, are its eyes cloudy at all?

My first impression is that it's flukes (aka trematodes), very common in angels. I'm not positive though. How long have you had it?

Jenn

 

[grayskwerel]

JennM;633996 wrote: Temperature and specific gravity?

The algae is likely diatoms, which occur when a new tank starts to find its equilibrium. They'll pass and they aren't harmful.

That fish, on the other hand, is in a world of hurt. I can't quite tell what's wrong, but something is definitely wrong. Its eyes look clear in the photo, but when you look closely, are its eyes cloudy at all?

My first impression is that it's flukes (aka trematodes), very common in angels. I'm not positive though. How long have you had it?

Jenn

His eyes are not cloudy at all and his breathing is normal. Appetite is healthy... he eats ANYTHING I put in there. Tank temp is 78 and salinity is 1.021. How do I treat for trematodes. Do I need to treat the entire tank or just him in a quarantine tank? Should I look closely for the parasite or are they too small to see? Thanks Jenn
Vin

 

[smallblock]

any specific reason the salinity is that low?

 

[jennm]

1.021 is a bit low but shouldn't bother the fish too much. Inverts, though do better in the 1.23-1.025 range.

If its eyes are clear it might not be trematodes. Angels are very prone to them, but they usually attack the eyes, mouth and gills first as it's easier to bite there. Once those spots are occupied, more trematodes go for the skin/between the scales.

That's sorta kinda what it looks like to me but if the eyes are clear, I could be way off-base.

There are a few ways to treat. A freshwater bath for 7 minutes will tell you. Fresh RO to temperature (some recommend buffering for pH. I don't do this but many do, so I'll put that in there - do with what you are comfortable doing.) Put the fish in there for 7 minutes - no less, and not more than 10 minutes. If it is trematodes, after about 4 minutes they will start to fall off (dead). They look like semi-transparent, sesame-seed shaped/sized critters. They can't handle the change in osmotic pressure in the fresh water and they die and fall off. When they are on the eyes, you'll see them peel off, and sometimes they come out of the mouth and gills (that can be rather disconcerting if you've never seen it happen before). Sometimes they drop out of the gills and land on the pectoral fins - they'll fall right off if you gently keep the fish moving in the dip.

Now... angels take FW dips well, but sometimes they will curl up and lie down on the bottom of the container - which can also be as stressful to the keeper, or maybe more so than the fish. Gently prod the fish to keep it alert and moving. If the fish shows serious signs of stress, abort the procedure and put it back in saltwater.

We suggest doing this once a day until the fish dips "clean" for a couple of consecutive days (nothing comes off). Then you need to watch for secondary infection from the bite sites.

If that whole procedure is out of your comfort zone, you can use Hikari Prazi-Pro either in the main tank or in a quarantine tank (preferable). Prazi Pro has been used in reef systems safely, it's main contraindication is where there are fanworms present, since it is a dewormer, you may lose fanworms. (Trematodes are a form of flatworm).

If you use PraziPro, turn off your skimmer and remove carbon. You can turn the skimmer on again after about 5 days but only do so if you can monitor the skimmer - the polymers in PraziPro will make your skimmer go berserk and overflow.

These are the 2 most effective treatments I've experienced for this ailment.

But again, I'll reiterate - I'm not 100% positive that's what he's got going on.

If it were me, and he's not getting any better, I'd probably try a FW dip to see what, if anything, comes off, and then decide from there, whether to continue doing that for a few days, or move to a QT with PraziPro.

Jenn

 

[grayskwerel]

Smallblock;634202 wrote: any specific reason the salinity is that low?

This is my first Marine tank and I was told the best salinity for a FOWLR tank is 1.021. Should I raise it, and if so what should it be?

 

[jennm]

It's not bad if there are no inverts.

I prefer 1.023 but many keep it higher (esp. in a reef tank). Natural Sea Water is 1.025.

There are a lot of differing opinions on what "ideal" is. I don't think that's what's bothering the fish.

Jenn

 

[grayskwerel]

Thanks Jenn, I will try that.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

JennM;634211 wrote: It's not bad if there are no inverts.

I prefer 1.023 but many keep it higher (esp. in a reef tank). Natural Sea Water is 1.025.

There are a lot of differing opinions on what "ideal" is. I don't think that's what's bothering the fish.

Jenn

IMHO, and IMHO only, I disagree. I do not think hyposalinity is as "harmless" as people claim. And I certainly dont think it is beneficial. It has the benefit of being a relatively mild treatment, but I fail to see how it doesn't impair fish, to a certain degree. As fish have evolved to live in NSW conditions, this HAS to be where they function best. Otherwise, they would be there.

 

[lilrobb]

jmaneyapanda;634231 wrote: IMHO, and IMHO only, I disagree. I do not think hyposalinity is as "harmless" as people claim. And I certainly dont think it is beneficial. It has the benefit of being a relatively mild treatment, but I fail to see how it doesn't impair fish, to a certain degree. As fish have evolved to live in NSW conditions, this HAS to be where they function best. Otherwise, they would be there.

While I 100% agree with this, your reasoning follows Lamarck and not Darwin...

 

[grayskwerel]

Dipped him in a freshwater dip with paragon last night for a full 10 minutes. He handled it like a champ but I didn't see anything fall off of him and he is still rubbin on the coral and araganite. Been doin 20 gallon water changes every 2 weeks and using RO/DI water so I can't imagine it being something in the new water. Think I gonna add some activated charcoal to the filter for a couple of days to see if it helps any. Any ideas on what my next step should be if the charcoal doesn't help?

Oh yeah... salinity is now 1.023

 

[grayskwerel]

So here is the status... Freshwater dip... no help... from 4/16 to 4/24 I fed him Dr Gs Anti-Parasitic food and treated the tank with Herbtana... again no help. Set up a hospital tank on 4/25 with 1.017 salinity and threw some Cupramine in there. His color is back, tiny specs are almost gone, not rubbing the rock anymore... much more active in the tank... on the road to recovery!! Thanks everyone for your help!

 

[smallblock]

I'm glad we got a good ending for a change, way to go the extra mile to save him