January Prodibio Questions

[cameron]

What are some of the questions we have for these guys? From my understanding we are getting a higher up from the company to show us what this stuff can do. I personally am very interested to know what makes their strains of bacteria amongst other things superior to the random home grown kind. I know I am excited.

 

[suasati]

More important factor to these types is not the bacteria culture but the bacterial food, You can achieve the same results with adding sugar or vodka, but the margin of error is high. The bacterial addition offsets any such errors. It is not the nitrification bacteria that is important but the de-nitrification and phosphate consumption that is the key to get oligotrophic conditions.

 

[roundman]

If this does what the web site says and it is reasonably priced. I would like to try some of it.

 

[dakota9]

and it is reasonably priced...

Er goes, the stumbling block!

 

[cameron]

SuAsati;114952 wrote: More important factor to these types is not the bacteria culture but the bacterial food, You can achieve the same results with adding sugar or vodka, but the margin of error is high. The bacterial addition offsets any such errors. It is not the nitrification bacteria that is important but the de-nitrification and phosphate consumption that is the key to get oligotrophic conditions.

If they have developed a series of bacterial strains that are highly effecient at eating certain nutrients in the water column it could be far better than the random stuff that is most of our tanks. There are countless strains of this stuff and some are certainly going to be more effecient than others. If these guys have cultivated "super strains" it would be worth dosing in a tank to get it started. Imagine the same rock work with 40% more effeciency in the breakdown of nutrients from simply dosing a relative inexpensive selected bacterial strain. If you have a 100lbs of rock it would be like adding another 40lbs. Don't know if it works that way, but I can certainly imagine it could as each strain of bacteria is going to have pluses and minuses with some performing a selected task at a much higher rate. I have heard of people creating strains to do some amazing things in reef tanks. Course this could just be more snake oil.

 

[schwaggs]

The reccomended dosing for my reef tank would costs around $100 per month...

 

[suasati]

Cameron;115173 wrote: If they have developed a series of bacterial strains that are highly effecient at eating certain nutrients in the water column it could be far better than the random stuff that is most of our tanks. There are countless strains of this stuff and some are certainly going to be more effecient than others. If these guys have cultivated "super strains" it would be worth dosing in a tank to get it started. Imagine the same rock work with 40% more effeciency in the breakdown of nutrients from simply dosing a relative inexpensive selected bacterial strain. If you have a 100lbs of rock it would be like adding another 40lbs. Don't know if it works that way, but I can certainly imagine it could as each strain of bacteria is going to have pluses and minuses with some performing a selected task at a much higher rate. I have heard of people creating strains to do some amazing things in reef tanks. Course this could just be more snake oil.

There are no super strains, It is about the ratio of the bacterial strain, all of these systems come with addition of food source, without which they bacterial culture won't proliferate to achieve the result. once the food source is gone they die off..... that is why you constantly have to keep the schedule. If you stop it, you tank will start to cycle again to get back to the balance..... Kinda like pulling half of your live rock out in one stretch.

Moreover, prodibio does not give any specific culture media, it uses the liverock and sand bed, unlike ultralith and zeo. so it really doesn't buy you any advantage over reducing the liverock requirement.

 

[xyzpdq0121]

bonniesherrie;119182 wrote: Will the speaker have the product for sale at the meeting? If not, where can we order it?

I doubt customs would have looked to highly on them bringing a bunch of little vials of liquid over from France.

There are a few places you can order it from:
http://www.petstore.com/ps_searchItem-idCategory-FWAD-vendorname-Prodibio-vendorcode-PD-category-Freshwater_Aquarium_Supplies_Additives.html">http://www.petstore.com/ps_searchItem-idCategory-FWAD-vendorname-Prodibio-vendorcode-PD-category-Freshwater_Aquarium_Supplies_Additives.html</a>

[IMG]http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_searchItem.aspx?vendorcode=PD&vendorname=Prodibio">http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_searchItem.aspx?vendorcode=PD&vendorname=Prodibio</a>

[IMG]http://www.robsreef.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=RR&Category_Code=Prod">http://www.robsreef.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=RR&Category_Code=Prod</a>


[QUOTE=][B]SuAsati;119211 wrote:[/B] There are no super strains, It is about the ratio of the bacterial strain, all of these systems come with addition of food source, without which they bacterial culture won't proliferate to achieve the result. once the food source is gone they die off..... that is why you constantly have to keep the schedule. If you stop it, you tank will start to cycle again to get back to the balance..... Kinda like pulling half of your live rock out in one stretch.

Moreover, prodibio does not give any specific culture media, it uses the liverock and sand bed, unlike ultralith and zeo. so it really doesn't buy you any advantage over reducing the liverock requirement.[/QUOTE]

Those are all good things to ask them tonight for sure.. I do not know what is different about then and ultralith and zeo. I do know you can make a "super strain" that is resistant to copper and other things. But that is a different subject then this product.

 

[dough]

Sam @ Aquabuys told me he has some coming.

But I get mine from

 

[FutureInterest]

I just want to know what's in each lil ampule. From what I can gather biodigest and biooptim can be duplicated w/ simple carbon/vodka dosing. My nitrates and phosphates are never detectable anyways these days, so dosing this stuff isn't worthwhile.

However, the reefbooster seems worthwhile as its a blend of different aminos. I'd like to know how their amino acid blend is superior to others. I do dose seachem aminos, so I don't mind trying another amino to see if there's a difference.

Here's the only real reason any of us are interested in this stuff: Iwan's tank.

 

[cameron]

SuAsati;119211 wrote: There are no super strains, It is about the ratio of the bacterial strain, all of these systems come with addition of food source, without which they bacterial culture won't proliferate to achieve the result. once the food source is gone they die off.....

Moreover, prodibio does not give any specific culture media, it uses the liverock and sand bed, unlike ultralith and zeo. so it really doesn't buy you any advantage over reducing the liverock requirement.

There are specialized strains of bacteria engineered or rather selected to do very specific tasks. If prodibio reps were correct, they recently upped the number of strains in their vials by creating more opitimzed and specialized bacteria strains and obsoleting a few strains that were multi-purposed but not as effective. The reason for continual dosing is to bring those strains back into balance on a biweekly basis. They basically state these strains of bacteria kick the live rock, sand, etc in your tank into overdrive thus increasing the effeiciency of that biological filtration (more is done with less). Whether they are right or not still seems to be largely opinion based.

that is why you constantly have to keep the schedule. If you stop it, you tank will start to cycle again to get back to the balance..... Kinda like pulling half of your live rock out in one stretch.

Not sure exactly what you are saying here. If you stop dosing Prodibio your tank will cycle?

 

[dough]

I don't see why it would kill micro algea. Mybe in the long run it would if you don't have the nutreits to feed the micro aglea.

What micro algea are you referring to?

 

[dakota9]

Is it true that discontinueing use of this product, once dosing has begun, could cause a "mini-cycle" in your tank?

 

[victor626nj]

i would like to know if it is safe to use all 5 of these that come in the "bio kit reef " at once or do you do one a day ......

 

[victor626nj]

is wish they would have been louder yesterday cause i really didnt catch anything they were saying ....i bet my question was answered .but i appreciate them coming way out here for us and they free samples

 

[gwhiz]

Dakota9;119570 wrote: Is it true that discontinueing use of this product, once dosing has begun, could cause a "mini-cycle" in your tank?

I don't know about a "mini-cycle", but it's reasonable to assume that if using the optimized bacteria helps drive nitrates, etc. down that if you cease using it--and make no other changes--they'll go back up.

 

[gwhiz]

Victor626nj;119571 wrote: i would like to know if it is safe to use all 5 of these that come in the "bio kit reef " at once or do you do one a day ......

I wouldn't see any issue with timing, except for the BioDigest and the BioOptim. Since BioOptim is supposed to 'feed' the bacteria--should you wait for a period of time before adding it? The others seem to be independent, but what do I know!?

However, we can ask. Let's collect our questions and I'll email Valerie and get 'em answered.

 

[xyzpdq0121]

Geehh;119577 wrote: I wouldn't see any issue with timing, except for the BioDigest and the BioOptim. Since BioOptim is supposed to 'feed' the bacteria--should you wait for a period of time before adding it? The others seem to be independent, but what do I know!?

However, we can ask. Let's collect our questions and I'll email Valerie and get 'em answered.

Guys, this is why I brought them here is so you guys could fire shells at them and make sure questions were answered!!!

Great idea though, Ask your questions, if someone want to organize them for me, I have to talk to Valerie in the next week or two and I will ask her for some follow up. I have to scan in the handout that Valerie gave to me (we only had 25 to go around) and maybe that will answer a few questions too.

 

[xyzpdq0121]

Ok I do not know if this will work but here are the scanned pages. There might be a few small mistakes. I use an iris program that makes the text able to be edited, sometimes it will make and "L" a 1 or something like that. But you should be able to figure it all out if not I will can as am image to PDF.
<fieldset class="gc-fieldset">
<legend> Attached files </legend>

 

[dough]

I talked to them after the meeting. You can add the bioptim and biodigest at the same time. I took him to say that you could not add the reefbooster with the other two. I believe you need to wait about a week to add the reefbooster.

As for the Iodi and Stoni and can't see why you could not do that with the biotim and biodigest. The Iodi and Stroni are just chemical additives.

I added the biodigest and bioptim together last night and no tank crash.

I think it will take a several doses before you see results.