Kalkwasser Concentrate

[cameron]

At some point I am going to switch to two part and probably a reactor somewhere down the road, but for now I am trying to get it right with lime. Anyway to the question.

I want to dose VERY small amounts of kalkwasser but not in my top off. I know the kalkwasser bucket says use 2 tsps per gallon, but can you make a super concentrate version of kalkwasser and just dose very small amounts? I have read several articles that use vinegar to better dissolve the lime which I plan on trying, but I am thinking that won't be enough. I have a LiterMeter so I can dose the small amounts accurately, but before I juice up a cocktail and start throwing it in my tank I thought I might check with people who might know.

Thanks in advance, Cameron.

 

[justonemoretank]

I dont think that you can really make a "super concentrate" of the Kalkwasser to dose into the tank any more than what you already know using RODI water + regular Vinegar + Kalk powder. The vinegar helps to dissolve more of the Kalk powder into the water over just standard RODI. Just make very sure that you are not adding Kalk powder to Salt Water! That does not work! You have to mix it with RODI.

 

[justonemoretank]

Ohh maybe I see now more of what you want to do...If you only want to dose Very Tiny amounts of kalkwasser then all you need to do is put 1/2 (half) a teaspoon of Kalk powder per gallon of RODI. Or one third... whatever your tank Calcium and Alkalinity demands are. You do not have to use fully saturated Kalkwasser if you dont want to. Hope that helps.

 

[cameron]

You had it right the first time. My original message wasn't worded very well. I basically want to send in a super concentrated version of kalkwasser in small amounts rather than a standard concentration in larger amounts. I don't want to do it in the top off for a variety of reasons, but I may have to do that. I guess what I am asking is will say 8 tsps per gallon with vinegar create a much more concentrated version. I know you have to be more precise, but I have the equipment for that. I just can't find anyone who seems to have tried it.

If I can create a concentrated form of kalkwasser, I can use a smaller container that will last longer, I will dose at night when I have very little evap, I can put my doser on an auto shutoff when my PH hits 8.4 and I don't have to vary the amounts as much since it won't be tied to seasonal evap. Seems like a better way to do it to me.

 

[george]

I have a Kalk reactor, but I also keep a supply of water in one of those Wal-Mart bottled water containers for your fridge that holds about 2 gallons and has a spigot on the front. I shake it up every couple days to keep things saturated.

 

[jessezm]

I would think you would need a kalk (nilsen) reactor to dose more concentrated kalk solutions. I'm no expert, but my understanding is that even with vinegar, a solution can only hold so much kalk powder before it settles out. If you have a reactor with a stirrer or recirculation pump, all that powder that would normally end up settling out in a top off reservoir would stay in solution and end up in your tank. You would probably have to keep the stirrer on constantly, and dose VERY slowly, as kalk in high concentration is pretty cuastic.

You will want to be sure your auto shutoff and pH meter is well-tuned. Think abut what just happened to Steve's tank. BTW, what are your reasons for wanting to dose this way? (just curious)

 

[cameron]

I posted on reefcentral and the king (Holmes-Farley) responded. Even with vinegar you can only dissolve about 3tsps of kalkwasser to the gallon. Moving on to two part now.

 

[george]

jessezm wrote: If you have a reactor with a stirrer or recirculation pump, all that powder that would normally end up settling out in a top off reservoir would stay in solution and end up in your tank.

Running the reactor stirrer constantly sounds good, but the water isn't any more saturated other than perhaps the slight amount that precipitates out between stirrer-off and dosing.

Keeping it stirred keeps the extra kalk in suspension which is NOT good. The root of my Kalk near-disaster (snow, but no milk water) was that I forgot to hook up the timer that turns off the stirring before dosing. What you end up doing is pumping saturated kalkwasser into your tank along with undissolved kalk which is asking for trouble.

Kalk is a good source of maintenance, but I have always used additional dosing (2 part and/or supplement like Calcium Chloride or Seachem) to keep levels up. IMO, Kalk should always be used in tandem with other methods, not as a sole source.

 

[george]

Remember that there is no silver-bullet solution for calcium. Even with a high $$$ setup with a calcium reactor, you still have to adjust it and test your calcium levels. Assuming that you have coral/clam growth in your tank, your calcium needs will go up, not stay static.

The various methods are a balance of consistency, maintenance needs, and cost.

Jessezm, if your question is why would you want to dose with a Nilsen reactor, I can say that I have never gotten coral and coraline growth like I do with dosing Kalk when I dosed 2 part or other supplements. I have never owned a calcium reactor, but I understand they are even better.

 

[jessezm]

(referring to 2 posts up)

Oh, I certainly agree, which is why I was asking what was the desire to do this... I don't advocate dosing undissolved kalk directly to the tank--it just seemed like that was the only way to get more kalk into the water, as that seemed to be the question...

Now referring to post above:
My question was why would he want to dose super-concentrated kalk (which, as you explain, would be like dosing saturated kalkwasser PLUS undissolved kalk).

Two-part additive seems to be the safe and desirable solution...

 

[cameron]

I like the concept of kalkwasser, but wasn't sure how much you could dissolve before saturation. As it currently stands, I would need about 7 gallons of normal kalkwasser daily to keep up with the tank demands. I don't evap that much in a day so I was trying to find a way to use kalkwasser outside of topoff. In my case moving to a two part allows me to do this, but now I need two pumps instead of one.

 

[glxtrix]

sorry to jump in here, but how much vinegar would you add per gallon of rodi?

 

[cameron]

Max 45ml but most recommend 15ml.

 

[glxtrix]

so 15ml per gallon.....ok cool. I ask only cuz my DIY kalk reactor doesnt seem to keep the alk and calcium up. Its only a 15g tank, but I ahve two clams and a bit of SPS. Reactor is hooked up thu an 8gallon res of RO.

 

[jessezm]

I have the same problem, and my tank is only 10g. I think the problem is that we aren't evaporating enough water to keep up with the kalk demands. I add seachem reef complete buffer and calcium to compensate, and now that I am out of buffer, I have seen the alk levels drop dramatically. Time for some more additives! at least it's easy on a small tank...

 

[cameron]

Here is a great article I found is at

 

[glxtrix]

ah yes I remember reading this article, gonna try adding some vinegar and see what happens.

 

[cameron]

BTW, that guy uses a lot more vinegar than recommended by most other people I have read. I would certainly stay at or under 45ml per gallon.

 

[glxtrix]

oh yeah for sure, I'll start at the reccommended 15ml/g and go from there....I'm not all about a total tank wipeout.

 

[george]

IMO, you never want to dose anything that has undissolved Kalk. It's inviting bad things.

Unless you have large evaporation, you're almost forced to dose something else which is good because it tends to keep your kalk dosing schedule not a max capacity which will reduce the odds of an overdose and the sort of disasters we hear about. One possibility is to use a supplement that does not affect pH or Alk in your makeup water, such as Seachem Reef Advantage or some home made equivalent.