LiterMeter III Dosing Pump for auto water changes?

[y-not]

Has anyone used the LiterMeter III Dosing Pump to setup an auto water change?

From what I've gather this afternoon, the LiterMeter III supports up to three pumps.
One that is attached and two external pumps.

I was reading that the pumps can deliver 250ml/min.
That's somewhere near 95 gallons a day if my math is correct.

Of course, the rate per minute is adjustable. Jeff4ry planted a seed in my head a few months about setting up a continuous water change.

It sounds like the LiterMeter III just might be the ticket.

Over a 24 hour period, pull out and replace x amount of water per minute. No more lugging jugs of saltwater up the stairs and having to clean up the minor spillage that almost always seems to occur.

What do you all think about the LiterMeter III?

 

[jimmystephens]

See if u can invlove acroholic on this topic. I believe he has an auto water changer

 

[reefkeeper]

Yes that's correct. I'm about to do exactly what you described. I spent some time on the phone with Spectrapure Tech Support and they said it works exactly that way.

I have 3 pumps, one onboad which will perform my ATO and the other two remote pumps will remove and add the equivalent amount of water every day. I'm estimating the total amount of water I change biweekly and I'm planning on removing daily amounts that add up to the total.

Everything I read on this process is extremely positive.

Edit: You can also perform this function with an APEX. Reef Central has some threads on how to perform this with an APEX.

 

[acroholic]

I see no reason you could not use the Liter Meter, as long as it is made for the job. If the LM is a cheapo dosing pump like their $60 dosers, I would probably stay away from it.

Just checked the BRS website. They say it is a dosing pump, but they also list its uses as an auto water changer. It looks pretty beefy, and it can pull water from 25 feet below and pump up to 60 feet above the unit.

Main thing is to make sure the amounts pumped in and out are equal, which is easy enough to confirm with a couple buckets. But he cost is pretty high. $359 for the unit and one pump (spectrapure website has them for $269) . You'd need a secong pump unit as well, and they are about $129. So you are looking at about $400 for a new unit with 2 pumps. You can do it a lot cheaper than that with used equipment at least as good if not better quality.

I bought a used Cole Parmer Masterflex Peristaltic dosing pump with dual heads for just over $250 off ebay, and this is industrial quality stuff, selling for well over $1000 new.

Not many cheap dualhead units on there right now, but if you can wait and check the listings every couple days, you can find one. Just look for Easy Load I or II pump heads with the pump.

I have three Masterflex pumps going right now, a dual head for my water changer, a single head to feed my sulfur denitrator, and a single head to feed my calcium reactor.

But if you are partial to the LM3, it looks like it would do the job. Again, very important, is that the pumps are very equal to each other in their flow rates, as you can cause havoc with your SG if they are not. My WC pump has been working flawlessly for about 8 months so far.

Here is my auto water changer thread: http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=78813&highlight=masterflex">http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=78813&highlight=masterflex</a>

Fellow ARC member Silver Surfer ended up buying a dual head pump by Stenner, and gives their website in the thread: [IMG]http://www.stennerpumps.ca/pumps.htm#c">http://www.stennerpumps.ca/pumps.htm#c</a>

I cannot comment on Stenners, but you might PM him Silver Surfer about how he likes his.

 

[morganatlanta]

I second the dual head Masterflex. Picked it up for around $250 on ebay. Super industrial strength, hugely variable flow. Just put it someplace where you won't mind the sound since it isn't quiet. Mine runs for about an hour a day (on speed level 3 of 10) to change 5 gallons.

 

[rjrgroup]

I deal with dosing pumps everyday, both diaphragm and peristaltic. The only concern I see and it's a big one, is the tubing assembly failure. If you do if fact run these pumps in such a way, I would highly suggest mounting them above some type of containment in conjunction with a water detection device with shut off capabilities. In-line check valves wouldn't hurt either. For example, Stenner pumps tubing should be replaced every 12 months with minor dosing increments. This would be considerably less with a constant dosing regiment. You should be able to prolong that with incremental cycles to decrease heat. I hope this helps and I too believe if approached correctly, daily W/C are "more gooder". lol

 

[acroholic]

leveldrummer;903213 wrote: If you run an auto water change through out the day, is there any more need to dose cal/alk and such? or do the corals strip it faster then an auto water change system replaces it?

I think the answer to that question depends on what is the calcium and alkalinity in your salt mix, and how much water are you actually changing each day?

With enough water changes with the right salt, you wouldn't have to skim or anything, really. But most folks don't do that.

I set mine up only to lessen manual labor. I figured out about how much water I changed on a monthly basis, and divided it by 30. Comes out to about 1% daily of my net system volume (465 gallons) for me with my water changer, or 4.6 gallons. I still dose kalk and have a calcium reactor. Nothing has changed about my calcium and alk dosing since putting in the changer.

Edit:

rjrgroup;903218 wrote: I deal with dosing pumps everyday, both diaphragm and peristaltic. The only concern I see and it's a big one, is the tubing assembly failure. If you do if fact run these pumps in such a way, I would highly suggest mounting them above some type of containment in conjunction with a water detection device with shut off capabilities. In-line check valves wouldn't hurt either. For example, Stenner pumps tubing should be replaced every 12 months with minor dosing increments. This would be considerably less with a constant dosing regiment. You should be able to prolong that with incremental cycles to decrease heat. I hope this helps and I too believe if approached correctly, daily W/C are "more gooder". lol

Yup...tubing failure would be about the only issue I could see as well. In my case, I use Phar-Med tubing with my MasterFlex pumps. In the case of my WCer, the tubing is on total about 23 hours a month (46 minutes daily x 30 days/month). I figure maybe 9-12 month intervals for changes. My other two Masterflex pumps are 24/7 operation, and I change those out every 3-5 months. No issues so far.

It only takes about 7 inches of tubing to make a drip set for the MF pumps, so you make sure you buy the correct tubing for your application, get 10 feet, and you are set for many years. You only need enough for the rollers to hold, then you have regular vinyl tubing connected to each side via push or barbed fittings.

 

[y-not]

Acroholic;903237 wrote: I think the answer to that question depends on what is the calcium and alkalinity in your salt mix, and how much water are you actually changing each day?

With enough water changes with the right salt, you wouldn't have to skim or anything, really. But most folks don't do that.

I set mine up only to lessen manual labor. I figured out about how much water I changed on a monthly basis, and divided it by 30. Comes out to about 1% daily of my net system volume (465 gallons) for me with my water changer, or 4.6 gallons. I still dose kalk and have a calcium reactor. Nothing has changed about my calcium and alk dosing since putting in the changer.

Edit:

Yup...tubing failure would be about the only issue I could see as well. In my case, I use Phar-Med tubing with my MasterFlex pumps. In the case of my WCer, the tubing is on total about 23 hours a month (46 minutes daily x 30 days/month). I figure maybe 9-12 month intervals for changes. My other two Masterflex pumps are 24/7 operation, and I change those out every 3-5 months. No issues so far.

It only takes about 7 inches of tubing to make a drip set for the MF pumps, so you make sure you buy the correct tubing for your application, get 10 feet, and you are set for many years. You only need enough for the rollers to hold, then you have regular vinyl tubing connected to each side via push or barbed fittings.

So, help me with the math here.
I have a Red Sea Max 250L/66 gallon (my wife liked it and she pretty much controls the check book).

Normally, I change 10 gallons a week. Roughly 40 gallons month. If I set up the auto water change, I'm thinking that if I change 1/4 of a gallon per day, that would be a little more than my 10 gallons per week but at a 1/4 gallon per day, I do not suspect that my livestock is going to freak out and start rioting on me.

Would 1/4 gallon per day on a 66 gallon tank be too much?

 

[acroholic]

Y-Not;903284 wrote: So, help me with the math here.
I have a Red Sea Max 250L/66 gallon (my wife liked it and she pretty much controls the check book).

Normally, I change 10 gallons a week. Roughly 40 gallons month. If I set up the auto water change, I'm thinking that if I change 1/4 of a gallon per day, that would be a little more than my 10 gallons per week but at a 1/4 gallon per day, I do not suspect that my livestock is going to freak out and start rioting on me.

Would 1/4 gallon per day on a 66 gallon tank be too much?

1/4 gallon a day would be 7.5 gallons a month, or a 14% monthly water change based on a net gallonage of 53.

Most reef calculators say to figure up your gross volume, then deduct 20% of that for sand, liverock and corals. Since you have a RSM without a sump, your gross volume is 66 gallons, so net volume would be 53 gallons. Work with this figure, not the gross volume.

If now you do 10 gallons a week or 40 gallons a month, you are doing an actual monthly 75% water change, which is a lot and not bad for the tank. If your salt levels are good for KH, calcium and magnesium, you may not have to do any dosing, but you'd need to check with test kits.

To do a 1% daily water change on your RSM, you'd want to change out .53 gallons every day. To maintain your current WC amount of 75% monthly, you would change out 1.3 gallons a day (1.325 to be exact).

My net gallons on my 465 system is about 465, so I change out 4.65 gallons a day, which gives me a 30% volume WC every month. Not sure how much that amount helps, but it certainly doesn't hurt. I have also always used Instant Ocean, which is an inexpensive salt compared to others, and I adjust my chemistry with separate additions if necessary, which in my case is magnesium once in a while. I never have to do anything for KH or calcium.

 

[y-not]

Acroholic;903296 wrote: 1/4 gallon a day would be 7.5 gallons a month, or a 14% monthly water change based on a net gallonage of 53.

Most reef calculators say to figure up your gross volume, then deduct 20% of that for sand, liverock and corals. Since you have a RSM without a sump, your gross volume is 66 gallons, so net volume would be 53 gallons. Work with this figure, not the gross volume.

If now you do 10 gallons a week or 40 gallons a month, you are doing an actual monthly 75% water change, which is a lot and not bad for the tank. If your salt levels are good for KH, calcium and magnesium, you may not have to do any dosing, but you'd need to check with test kits.

To do a 1% daily water change on your RSM, you'd want to change out .53 gallons every day. To maintain your current WC amount of 75% monthly, you would change out 1.3 gallons a day (1.325 to be exact).

My net gallons on my 465 system is about 465, so I change out 4.65 gallons a day, which gives me a 30% volume WC every month. Not sure how much that amount helps, but it certainly doesn't hurt. I have also always used Instant Ocean, which is an inexpensive salt compared to others, and I adjust my chemistry with separate additions if necessary, which in my case is magnesium once in a while. I never have to do anything for KH or calcium.

As with most things, I like the control. I also like to geek out on things like this as well.
Testing? Yeah, I do it. I've also got my Apex doing a whole lot of things but I do not depend upon the Apex for everything and I always feel the need to double check the Apex info with test kits.

My water parameters have always been spot on. Partly due to the RSM design and some minor modifications I've made to it as well as the water changes that I do.

My desire for a auto water change/constant water change is to decrease the labor as well as increase the over all water parameters/trace elements.

I figure that if one wanted too, with a constant water changing system, one could change 100% of the water over 7 days. I have no desire to do this. Hell, the cost in salt would drive my wife over the edge.

But I'm fine with changing the amount that I've been doing. My livestock has yet to complain about it. But I do not like the idea of pulling out and replacing that much at one time. Over a period of 7 days seems to be less shocking that all at once.

BTW, are these 'reef calculators' that you mentioned something on-line that I can check out?
I've yet to google them so...call me lazy. I'll get on that later this evening I guess.

Time to go change water. :yuk:

 

[acroholic]

Here's the one I have always used. The volume calculator is a link on the top right of the page. I think BRS has one on their website as well.

 

[y-not]

Acroholic;903302 wrote: Here's the one I have always used. The volume calculator is a link on the top right of the page. I think BRS has one on their website as well.

http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html">http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html</a>[/QUOTE]


That's pretty freaking cool. :shades:
I can not believe that I work on and with computers all day and never thought to search for a calculator like that.

:up:

 

[acroholic]

The calculators are really handy. I use 15% instead of 20% as the amount to subtract for the coral/substrate because I don't have substrate in my 465.