Mag vs Alkalinity

[rk4435]

If you hate long winded diatribes please skip to the red question below.

I had a thread running around Christmas detailing parameter issues. I updated that thread often as I was checking multiple threads daily and doing frequent large water changes trying to see if my Mag would go up without buffering.

The end result was that I decided to switch salts since I was testing my mix water at the same time it was obvious that the parameters were starting bad at the water change. I'm not sure if I had a bad mix or what the problem was.

I'm happy to report that after my first large water change with a new salt I have a better Mag reading, and my Calcium is close to normal, both without buffering, but my Alk is low.

My current data;
Mag 1200
Calcium 420
Alk 6.7

I obviously need to buffer my Mag to get up to the 1300 range, but my Alk is low as well.

<span style="color: Red;">IS IT SAFE TO BUFFER MAG AND ALKALINITY IN THE SAME EVENING? </span> I've not found a single article that laid that out there simple enough for my social science brain to comprehend. If it's not I think Alk would be the bigger issue since 1200 Mag is far better than the 1100-1150 I was hovering at on my old salt.

Thanks in advance.

 

[mikesmith34]

I can't remember if you are running a doser?? What salt are you using now?? I've added BRS 2 part mag to bring it up and make small 5ml increases of alk daily until the desired results are achieved . When making parameter changes I test on wed and sat so as to not overshoot to rapidly my desired alk which is 8-8.5

 

[rk4435]

No doser Mike. I switched to Seachem Reef Salt and that nudged me closer to where I need to be Mag and Calcium wise, which is good.

But my Alk is lower as stated above. This is all confused by the higher Borat concentration in the new salt that throws off the Alk readings. If I am reading the literature / threads correctly my reading of 6.7 Alk may actually need to be converted down by 20% to be accurate on a Salifert test.

How's that for confusing?

 

[rk4435]

And I was wrong above, my KH is 6.7, Alk 2.39.

 

[tonymission]

I don't think buffering is bad occasionally but did you dry mix all the salt before making you water? I dont think seachem salt is supposed to mix at those parameters so maybe your bucket has settled a bit.

My goal is to use a salt that's as close to my intended parameters as possible so my dosing can be minimal and only there to maintain levels. Id worry about ALK before mag.. personally I wouldn't even worry about mag but that doesn't make it right.

 

[cment]

I would buffer Mg and wait to then buffer Alk...not sure if this depends on the supplement you use, but in my experience when I added my Mg supplement to get my levels where I wanted it actually raised my Alk a little higher than I wanted. Add your Mg to get the appropriate levels desired then wait 8-12 hrs to add Alk if needed.

 

[rk4435]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Everything I can find states that Seachem Reef Salt measured with a Salifert kit will give a bad reading by 20% because of the higher borate content in Seachem RS. If that is true it makes my 6.7 reading much lower, making me believe my tank would be truly pissed, which it's not.

Is anything in this hobby easy?

 

[shrimpy brains]

Seems odd to me that your parameters would be consistently low in both your DT and mixing tank, and with 2 kinds of salt. I would consider the age/quality of your test kits. Maybe take your water to someone else and have them double check.


If the readings are still off, consider dosing slowly to bring it to the proper levels. IME, it is more important to have water that is consistent, then having the "correct" parameters.

 

[rdnelson]

Shrimpy Brains;1007860 wrote: Seems odd to me that your parameters would be consistently low in both your DT and mixing tank, and with 2 kinds of salt. I would consider the age/quality of your test kits. Maybe take your water to someone else and have them double check.


If the readings are still off, consider dosing slowly to bring it to the proper levels. IME, it is more important to have water that is consistent, then having the "correct" parameters.

+1

But to answer your original question....

You should wait at least 15 minutes between dosing Alkalinity and Calcium to prevent the Calcium fro precipitating out. But Alkalinity and Magnesium can be dosed simultaneously.

Earlier in the thread it was said to get Alk where you want it before you dose mag. I disagree with this. Alk and Ca are very dependent on Mag. Getting you mag in line should be your first priority. Once it has been in the correct range for a while you can then start adjusting the other two to you liking. But go slow. Before doing anything, make sure the test kits are accurate.

 

[nickh06]

rk4435;1007760 wrote: If you hate long winded diatribes please skip to the red question below.

I had a thread running around Christmas detailing parameter issues. I updated that thread often as I was checking multiple threads daily and doing frequent large water changes trying to see if my Mag would go up without buffering.

The end result was that I decided to switch salts since I was testing my mix water at the same time it was obvious that the parameters were starting bad at the water change. I'm not sure if I had a bad mix or what the problem was.

I'm happy to report that after my first large water change with a new salt I have a better Mag reading, and my Calcium is close to normal, both without buffering, but my Alk is low.

My current data;
Mag 1200
Calcium 420
Alk 6.7

I obviously need to buffer my Mag to get up to the 1300 range, but my Alk is low as well.

<span style="color: Red">IS IT SAFE TO BUFFER MAG AND ALKALINITY IN THE SAME EVENING? </span> I've not found a single article that laid that out there simple enough for my social science brain to comprehend. If it's not I think Alk would be the bigger issue since 1200 Mag is far better than the 1100-1150 I was hovering at on my old salt.

Thanks in advance.

Which salt are you using now and what were you using when you noticed the problem? I have yet to find a salt that is exactly perfect in every aspect. I've been using Red Sea coral pro with no complaints. The Ca is usually a tad low but I usually add some calcium when I do a water change and it comes out perfect.

I would add mg and alk slowly until they are at your desired levels. Shouldn't have a problem doing it at the same time but personally I would do Mg first and then alk once mg levels are up.

 

[rk4435]

I just switched to Seachem Reef Salt from Reef Crystals Nickh06. With Reef Crystals my Mag was around 1100, the Seachem is 1200 in my mixing tank and Calcium is higher as well.

I emailed Seachem last night to ask about the Borat / Alk issue that is all over the internet on various threads. Hopefully they will give me an answer today. Since I'm not sure if the Alk is actually low I decided to only buffer Mag last night.

 

[mikesmith34]

rk4435;1007879 wrote: I just switched to Seachem Reef Salt from Reef Crystals Nickh06. With Reef Crystals my Mag was around 1100, the Seachem is 1200 in my mixing tank and Calcium is higher as well.

I emailed Seachem last night to ask about the Borat / Alk issue that is all over the internet on various threads. Hopefully they will give me an answer today. Since I'm not sure if the Alk is actually low I decided to only buffer Mag last night.

I'm very curious about this borate thing and 20%. I'm completely not sure but sounds like a wives tale or something. Salifert test kits are pretty accurate and a stated above I'm beginning to 2nd guess the accuracy of your test. I use regular ole IO and only need to adjust mag periodically. Reef crystals should put your params pretty darn close to where they need to be. Something's fishy. Get that 2nd opinion on ur test.

 

[rk4435]

You're right Mikesmith, I'm questioning my test as well, and I actually changed salts because of the Mag level.

I ordered a Seachem kit that will allow me to test the Alk / KH and then calculate the difference. As Seachem explains it, no other kit can actually measure KH accurately because of the difference in borate and other buffers. I'm not sure if that makes sense, I'm no chemist.

If my Salifert kit was right my Alk was low, I guess I'll see tomorrow when the Seachem kit arrives and I can compare the values. It is actually a kit that measures Mag, Alk, and KH. As it is my tank seems rather happy since the switch to Seachem Reef Salt, but I have only completed one water change.

One of the most frustrating things about this hobby is the never ending knowledge base that is necessary. I've had SW tanks for two years now and never understood the relationship between Mag, Alk and Calcium until recently. Most of my first year was dedicated to fighting Phosphates and Nitrates. In every case I have been unsure of myself because each test has shortcomings.