Mulligan!

[dave green]

Well, looks like with all the changes that have been done to the system over the past couple weeks (changing water, adding skimmer, adding heater, removing fish... uh... after they went to fishy heaven, aquascaping, dosing for ammonia, etc...), I have shocked the living daylights out of the tank, and the only things left swimming are the 6-line and the foxface (which may or may not have some ich happening... tiny white spots one the face, little brown spots on his left side).

So... this Sunday, I am starting the tank over, so to speak.

I'm going to re aquascape the thing, along with more live rock, get some sand-stirrers/detrius eaters and inverts. I may even drain the tank and the sump and start with a whole new batch of saltwater.

This is a chance to start things over with the tank and all options are on the table (even possibly even removing the sea apple - I'm really fighting that one, though).

What things would y'all recommend that I keep in mind when I do this? It'll be a couple weeks before fish number one goes in (other than what's already there).

I'm already thinking about how to arrange the rock to get the most flow that I can through the tank, as well as how much sand to add and how to rearrange the plants to give it the best possible appearance I can.

Livestock-wise, I'm thinking about adding a few hermits and a couple serpent stars and maybe one or two more decorative snails (provided that they are available).

If they're still around, I could put the fish into a bucket with existing water and maybe the inverts that I can catch into another bucket (do I need to worry aboout shrimp wars between the cleaner and coral banded and hermits?). What should I do with the condi anemone while I work? I'll have to work quickly to avoid going over three hours (provided that I understand the 3-hour rule correctly).

Any ideas? Is there anything I'm missing? Anything I shuould be thinking of? Suggestions?

The only things that are written in stone are: Live sand, live rock and lots of caulerpa. Other than that, it's all under consideration.

I appreciate y'all!

 

[victor626nj]

dont syart over cause you might lose what you have left jusr be [aitiant dont bother thye system any more just do 10% water changes and youll be fine remember everything takes time in this hobby all your are doing is stressing it out i know that it looks nice having your critters in there but they get stressed fast and die ....i just let my fish into the tank after 8 weeks of qt so just take your time we will all be glad to help you here good luck and happy reefing

 

[victor626nj]

oh yeah and through the sea apple out the windo no jk but take it in for store credit what are you thinking keeping that thing there is people here with years of experiance and they wont keep the thing no matter how pretty it is

 

[jaandgc]

3 hour rule, thats the first time I have heard that one. I can assure you when they are shipped to the store they are in a much smaller body of water for a lot longer. I would not stress the time that much, the last time I cleaned out my tank all of my corals were in 2 75 gallon tanks for 3 days with only a power head and they all survived, although a little mad. Any time you rush you set your self up for a problem that could have been avoided.

 

[linda lee]

Agree with Victor on water-changes, but no start-over (that would just mean cycling all over again).

Suggest removing the fish only and setting up a QT tank for them; allow your main sytem to be host-free for 3-4 weeks, allowing possible ich and any other fish disease/parasites to go away. Inverts would be fine remaining the the main system as they wouldn't host fish diseases.

Continue tank maintenance/periodic water changes while your display tank recovers. Test parameters often.

Wouldn't really add anything new in the way of livestock for a long time until your tank is completely stable and happy.

As a footnote, I'd take a lot of really cool pictures of your sea apple. Maybe even a video or two. Then put them all in a scrapbook and get rid of the apple. You'd be free of the ticking time-bomb and you'd still have your memories.

 

[victor626nj]

Linda Lee;98914 wrote: Agree with Victor on water-changes, but no start-over (that would just mean cycling all over again).

Suggest removing the fish only and setting up a QT tank for them; allow your main sytem to be host-free for 3-4 weeks, allowing possible ich and any other fish disease/parasites to go away. Inverts would be fine remaining the the main system as they wouldn't host fish diseases.

Continue tank maintenance/periodic water changes while your display tank recovers. Test parameters often.

Wouldn't really add anything new in the way of livestock for a long time until your tank is completely stable and happy.

i agree with you on the ich cycle but that would have to be a min of 6 weeks and you will want to jack up the temp to 04 degrees to speed up the cycle but good call linda

 

[dave green]

Good points, y'all...

I don't have a QT, but I may have access to one... would the fish need to be acclimated to the QT? Maybe they can fish-sit for me for a while!

If I'm going to wait six weeks to add livestock, that would be enough time for me to let new live sand cycle in and mature and the aquascaping would also be able to settle in, too, right?

Would I still be able to add invertibrates? Should I experiment with some off-the-norm (I think I'll tend to stay away from the arrow crab if I ever want to have fish in there!)? Any really cool ideas for additions?

How many at once, etc...?

I may seem impatient, but the tank *is* in a retail location and I need to keep it looking like it's *supposed* to be going without fish as it cures and heals so that customers don't start believing that I don't know what I'm doing.

Oh, will a sea apple nuke kill off inverts and live rock, or is it kinda like a neutron bomb that leaves everything else standing while killing the fish?

(oh, 04 degrees as in 104 degrees???)

 

[victor626nj]

no need to cycle again let it mature as for the qt you can add fresh salt water and do 10% water changes every 4 days for 2 weeks then do a water change evey other week until its been 6-8 weeks but let your tank keep maturing not recycle brandon wrote a good artical on ich you can follow to qt your fish just be patient ok any questions we are here jsut dont be rebelious towards us like keeping a sea apple lol good luck to you david here is the artical

 

[cdub]

everytime you post i feel like i'm driving by a car wreck. its terrible, but i can't help but look.

 

[gwhiz]

cdub;98929 wrote: everytime you post i feel like i'm driving by a car wreck. its terrible, but i can't help but look.

lol...I have the same feeling!

 

[stroid]

cdub;98929 wrote: everytime you post i feel like i'm driving by a car wreck. its terrible, but i can't help but look.

I agree you are rushing and your tank is going up and down. First you are having issues then you get them stable and now you want to possibly upgrade to a larger tank. Dont take this the wrong way because I am trying to help. I would hold of on the upgrade and do a bit more planning. Seems to me as if you are just jumping from one thing to another. First get rid of the sea apple it is not a reef safe creature and you will regret it one day if you dont remove it. If you want to upgrade to a 100g or so you need to take more time and PLAN. You will need more SW, LR, sand, flow, lights,...etc. Have a look at Flyingarmys upgrade thread in the DIY section it is a really good way to do an upgrade. Slowly and with all the right equipment and livestock. Good luck and slow down!

 

[calireefer]

I would like to recommend a couple of my favorite books "Natural Reef Auariums" by John H. Tullock and "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist" by Robert M. Fenner.
Also don't start over, just take the fish out if they need to be treated and let your tank cycle. Once your water tests are showing good parameters temp 78, Sg 1.025, alkalinity 8-10, pH 8-8.3, Nitrite 0, and Ammonia 0, then you can slowly start adding hardy fish.
I would read a good book before you wast any more money on fish though. Also if your not going to quarantine your fish for three or four weeks, you'd be much better off buying "used" fish, that have already proven themselves hardy in someone else's tank.

 

[linda lee]

davidbgreen;98924 wrote: I may seem impatient, but the tank *is* in a retail location and I need to keep it looking like it's *supposed* to be going without fish as it cures and heals so that customers don't start believing that I don't know what I'm doing.

That triggered my memory: is this the tank that is in a beauty salon? Did you ever figure out what led to the death of all the other fish? I'm not being critical, but could it be possible that the fish were poisoned by being in an environment with so many air-borne chemicals? With oxygen exchange so critical in reef tanks I would think this would be a red flag.

 

[victor626nj]

linda has solved the mystery

 

[linda lee]

Victor626nj;99058 wrote: linda has solved the mystery

I'm not saying that's it. But I would definitely consider it as a possibility.

 

[victor626nj]

yeah i would believe that has alot to do with it i hope not but it is a strong possibility good luck david

 

[blind1993]

david do you remember what i told you while you were at my house?

if not here is a little to refreash your memory

set up the new system and let is cycle while this one is still running.
or
send the fish to qt and set up the new system


also

no inverts other than snails and hermits for 3-6months

1fish a week is a good rule since you can not get any gigantic fish.

get tons of lr and one of those asms or euroreef skimmers.

 

[dave green]

cdub;98929 wrote: everytime you post i feel like i'm driving by a car wreck. its terrible, but i can't help but look.

heheheh... I get the feeling! I've always been somewhat of a scrapper as it is.

As the fish tank turns... these are the days of our aquariums! There will be a happy ending to it all - I promise!

 

[dave green]

The bigger tank is off the table (for now... I need to plan carefully for that). I've been doing a lot of thinkning about this next move.

Checking the waterflow through the tank, there are a couple very slow spots. A 55gal is pretty small to be thinking powerheads (or so I've read) but if I shuffle the rocks well to create a "wind-tunnel" then that should help quite a bit (saw something like that in The Conscientious Marine Aquarist - at least I think that's the book that I saw it in).

The idea is to set the main bodies of live rock in two triangle shapes in opposite corners to create a wind-tunnel of water effect. I've got plenty of live rock to work with to make this happen. I'll need to add live sand, but I should do that anyway.

The salon fumes are deifintely a question that I don't have an answer for yet, short of buying oxygen tanks and running them into the system (hey, I could dress them up like scuba gear!). The sump is exposed (1.4 inch too wide to fit under the cabinet and the skimmer's in there, too...

I'll marinade that in my head during the shift tonight.

Any ideas about oxygen enrichment (in case that's the problem)?

 

[dave green]

Also if your not going to quarantine your fish for three or four weeks, you'd be much better off buying "used" fish, that have already proven themselves hardy in someone else's tank.[/QUOTE]

"Used Fish..." You know, that makes a whole lot of sense! It would be kinda like buying "pre-quarranitined fish." Not a bad idea!!!