Need filtration inputs

[gpenley]

:yes: Hello fellow fish and reef lovers.:wow2:



I have a 45 gallon saltwater tank with 14 types of coral, 10 fish (pair of clowns, 3 Fire Gobies, one Royal Grammae, one three-striped damselfish, one Talbots Demsoiselle, one Six-lined Wrasse , one Arabian bluelined Dottyback), 5 Starfish, one shrimp, a bunch of snails and 2 small crabs. I have lots of live rock and plants growing and 2 inches of live sand. Ok, ok, ok, I know I have a bit too much for a 45 gallon tank, buy I am addicted to this hobby. Ny nitrate level ranges from 15 to 40 and I change 15 gallons of water a month. Most os my Coral is doing well except for some of sensitive coral like my pulsating xenia which no longer pulses and is shrinking,

Now my prblem is how to get the Nitrate level down low and keep it there. I went to fish supply store and found FLUVAL 205 Canister Filter for $195.00. I want to know if anyone of you have ever tried one of these filters and ahd any luck handling a bigger load and keeping your nitrates down. Before I spend $195 I would like other inputs on whether this is worth it. Is this easiest and most practical way to get my nitrate levele real low and keep it there or am I wasting money and it wont bring down my nitrates to low level. Please advise if you have inputs!!!!!:doh:

THANK YOU IN ADVANCE!!!!!!

 

[mojo]

What are you using for your source water? RODI or something else?

 

[cameron]

First check your calcium and alk levels and make sure everything is good there and what is your lighting? Nitrate can cause problems, but generally coral problems are related to coral nutrients and lighting.

As for the nitrates, check your top off water and make sure you are using good RO/DI water with low PPM. Cut back on the food and see what happens as well. Upgrading to a skimmer or tuning the one you have or get a better one will do wonders. Check other filters and make sure they are cleaned out.

 

[cgill311]

I think people try to avoid canister filters b/c the can become nitrate factories if you don't religiously clean the filter pads. The gunk will just accumulate and turn into nitrates, which is what you're trying to avoid.

Instead of a investing in a canister filter, you should consider investing in a good skimmer. It will suck proteins out of the water before the have a chance to break down into nitrates. I'd say this is a far better option that a canister filter.

You might also think about running a refugium with macroalgea. I've had really great experiences with my chaeto fuge, and nitrites/nitrates/ammonia levels are always nill.

You will probably also want to step up your water changes. A good rule of thumb is to change 10% every week. I siphon my sand every week to clean it when I'm doing the water changes.

Another possibility is to run Purigen in your system. This media will absorb nitrates. When saturated, it will turn brown and you can recharge it in bleach.

Another thing you can do is decrease the amount of food you put in your tank. Less food in = less detritus to break down = lower nitrates. Ten fish might be on the high side for a 45 gallon tank, so I wouldn't get any more.

So there's several things you could do. Buying a canister filter is probably the last thing I'd do. Hope that helps!

 

[broreefr]

Dont think your going to find much love for Canister filters. Your Live rock and sand should be fine. You do have a pretty good Bio-Load, You probably need to change much more water ie. frequency and amount.

I would take a look at Flow and Volume, as in do you have suffcient flow for the Reef you are running, you didnt mention sump, so I dont know but if you have one but that is an excellent way to add more volume to your overall system. I am assuming also that you are running a skimmer

 

[piznac]

Umm,.. Im a noob and all. But I have a Fluval 304 and didnt pay near that. I have no idea about the actual problem. But that seems a bit expensive for me

 

[reefman61686]

dont know as much as some but i would get a skimmer if you dont have one

 

[gpenley]

mojo wrote: What are you using for your source water? RODI or something else?

I buy all my salt water and RO water from Cappaccino Bay, clean my skimmer and filters regularly. I have A mILLINIUM 3000 power filter, a Maxi-Jet 1200 multi-use submersible pump and power head and a PRISM protein skimmer.

 

[gpenley]

Broreefr wrote: Dont think your going to find much love for Canister filters. Your Live rock and sand should be fine. You do have a pretty good Bio-Load, You probably need to change much more water ie. frequency and amount.

I would take a look at Flow and Volume, as in do you have suffcient flow for the Reef you are running, you didnt mention sump, so I dont know but if you have one but that is an excellent way to add more volume to your overall system. I am assuming also that you are running a skimmer

Thank you very much for the inputs. I don't need more nitrate possible prblems. Maybe I should look at sumps. ANy idea how big of one I would need for this 45 gallon tank and my critters?

On the interum I need to change water more frequently.

 

[reefman61686]

you could try a nitratereductor

 

[cameron]

gpenley wrote: I buy all my salt water and RO water from Cappaccino Bay, clean my skimmer and filters regularly. I have A mILLINIUM 3000 power filter, a Maxi-Jet 1200 multi-use submersible pump and power head and a PRISM protein skimmer.

I have never had a Prism skimmer so no personal experience, but they have a notoriously bad rep for not doing a good job. Might want to upgrade to either a sump and skimmer like the TurboFloter or get a nice hang on back AquaC. Also, try and cut back on the feeding and see what that does to your nitrates. Often excess food is a big generator of nitrates. All that said, I doubt that is the sole cause of your corals problems. I would look into your lighting and how old the bulbs are as well as your other water params.

 

[broreefr]

gpenley wrote: Thank you very much for the inputs. I don't need more nitrate possible prblems. Maybe I should look at sumps. ANy idea how big of one I would need for this 45 gallon tank and my critters?

On the interum I need to change water more frequently.

Yes 4 sure, a sump would be your best investment now (Maybe). The size should be as LARGE as you can fit under or around your system. You can use an overflow box if your tank isnt drilled. Increased water volume will help in a lot of ways, that way you can get your skimmer out of site. ~ speaking of Skimmers, I purchased a Prism skimmer about a year ago for my aggressive tank. I had a Coralife 220 running on my reeftank at that time so I could see what the Prism skimmer was NOT doing, in comparison all I can say is thank Goodness Dr. Foster & Smith have such a good return policy.

I doubt you are getting efficient skimming with that skimmer imo

btw - Welcome to the site !!

 

[xyzpdq0121]

This is going to sound like a pompus comment but cut back on your bioload and you cut back on the NO3! I do not recommend that anyone use a canister filter. Heck, might as well run an under gravel filter like the guy I overheard at Petco suggested to someone running salt. A fuge is what you need, not a sump. I agree with Broreefr: Get as big as of a fuge as you can fit under your stand. That might only be a 15 Tall on a 45 like yours. Load it up with Macro algae and a DSB (maybe a DIY Plenum too). You need to upgrade the skimmer a bit like everyone suggests. Prism was never good when it came out 8-10 years or so ago and still is not good now. Stay out of the Petco isle for skimmers, they are all garbage there. You get what you pay for! I might have missed how much live rock you have in your system but for this bio load you are going to need about 1.5-2 lbs per gallon of volume. If your fish can not swim because you have too many, load some of that live rock into your fuge...

In closing, there is no cheap or ewasy solution to your problem other then to lower your bioload. Maybe buy a cheap used tank and split your system into two. Other then that, you might have little chance at battling your high NO3 levels. You can give it a shot but I would not dump too much money into it trying to find one piece of equipment to solve the problem. The problem is in the science of creating an ecosystem and no gaget can change the laws of nature, yet.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

gpenley;

Not to sound belittling either, but how much of an understanding do you have of the denitrification cycle? Nitrates are something the is in everybodies tank. How it is dealt with is one point, and how is got there is another. I am guessing you bioload (from the number of fish, to the feedings, to the clean up, etc) is constantly adding a nitrogen source, which will end up as nitrates. If you can limit any of these, do it. Once it is nitrate, how do you get it out? With quality filtration and water changes. Or more involved methods such as denitrators.

I would suggest first getting to the root of the problem. Where are your nitrate coming from? I canister will surely not help, as will any other "wet Dry" type filtration. I think the best first step, is to increase water changes, as many have said already, and I always avdocate getting good strong skimmers. I share Cameron's opinion of the prizm. It will work, but if you are going to pend some money, I would suggest a better skimmer before a canister filter. Good luck.

 

[rhomer]

Everyone here has great ideas and is on the right idea. I can see 2 possible immediate solutions to the problem.

1) Reduce your bio-load
or
2) Add nutrient export

I had bad luck with a refuge, but there are others that swear by them. I completely agree with adding a sump and water volumn. Here is a diagram that shows an easy way to setup a mixed sump refuge in a single container. You would need to install baffles where the seperators are, but that isn't too difficult.

Just remember the solution to pollution is dilution.

Rob
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[gpenley]

This is awesome. The picture is worth a 1,000 words or more. I have never had a sump or refuge so I am kinda lost. I have been looking online for pictures so I get out of the dark and some idea what I am getting into. SInce I live in an apartment for next year, i really want to buy a system and not build or get a homemade one that might fail, leak or work so I am looking where to find a decent one for reasnable price. ANy ideas?

 

[rhomer]

You could do just about anything with rubbermaid containers and a pump. Rubbermaids are easy to work with and cheap. You could do something similar to above, just use more than one container.

You could have one higher then the next with simple overflows (holes with pvc and rubber washers) from one container to the next. As for the pump and skimmer take a look in the trading and selling forum, there are more then one skimmer for sale, and there are always pumps for sale. The only item that you would probably need new would be an overflow. A good pump for that size would be a mag 5 or mag 7 around 500 - 700 gph depending on how high you want to push the water.

Rob