Nem Vs Cardinal, Torch Vs Candy Cane

[danh]

Wild battles in my tank recently.

I lost two out of my three cardinals over the course of about 2 months. One I saw being eaten by a crab. The other I never saw a trace of. I also lost 4 fairly large chromis. I pulled one out. They all actually seemed a little inferior from the moment I put them in the tank. 2 of the three just sat in the corner for weeks. The other two were more active, just still seemed off. While the CUC seemed to take care of the one cardinal I saw being consumed, it's not a huge CUC. Maybe the nem got them all.

After doing plenty of research on nem care I decided to feed pretty sparingly. Primarily just letting his clown feed him. I read a lot about them regurgitating if you feed them too much. I think my nem is huge compared to the ones referred to in my research and just needs to be fed more often.

Two hours before I took this picture this cardinal seemed fine. I wonder, now, if the nem ate any of the others....

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[danh]

I forgot to take pics... but my candy cane with about 20 heads fell over on to my torch... The torch won. After about 10 days the candy cane has almost fully recovered and he's moved to a better spot.

Here's blue stag, I believe, vs sand. It couldn't have been face down in the sand for more than 8 hours or so... but it definitely killed the tops. I cut it and it's fully recovered.

The top ledge of my rock work has turned out to be a nice little natural frag rack. Had I know I was going to use it for that I would have drilled some holes in the top of it. I still may.

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And Brett's purple stylo. No issues with it It looks great.

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[danh]

And on the topic of wars survival of the fittest, in my 5g at work my emerald crab murdered by peppermint shrimp this morning. He's even got some algae creeping up to eat, but the recently molted shrimp fell prey.....

 

[Adam]

Wow. You've had a lot of "Nature" going on. Feeding the Nem more, with food you give it directly, might be a good idea. That way it won't eat food you give it indirectly, which will cost you in more ways than one.

I have some emeralds in my system as well. I've noticed that the larger ones get pretty aggressive. I had one cleaner shrimp go missing the 1st night I put the 2 shrimps in. I'm assuming an emerald got him. So I moved the ones that were as big as the last digit of my thumb down to the sump. Down there I believe the biggest has cannibalized some of the smaller crabs. There's plenty of algae and detritus down there too.

 

[FutureInterest]

Bubble tips from my understanding have weak stings. I've seen plenty of different healthy fish blunder into the ones I had and just zip right back out with no issues. That being said fish that are very unwell or already dead and floating around would easily be consumed.

I don't think feeding it any extra is going to make it sting any less. The opposite of that is probably true as well as I don't think their nematocysts have different settings based on hunger levels . When they get triggered... they fire.

 

[danh]

Ah. Good info. Well, I'll feed it anyway. It seems to be bubbling more since I've been feeding it more.

3 of the 4 chromis were definitely lethargic fish from the moment they left the bag....

 

[bobz]

FutureInterest;1095829 wrote: Bubble tips from my understanding have weak stings. I've seen plenty of different healthy fish blunder into the ones I had and just zip right back out with no issues. That being said fish that are very unwell or already dead and floating around would easily be consumed

I agree with Jin. I've actually watched my Cardinals take refuge in the anemone when they were frightened so my guess would be the Cardinal died from another cause. In my experience, I have never been able to keep more than two cardinals in any size tank (up to my 210) once they have paired off. The other fish were always harassed until I either got them out or they died. Hope that helps!

Bob

 

[Adam]

Would a Nem be more likely to try and wrap up something that brushed it when not fed much?

 

[bobz]

anit77;1095834 wrote: Would a Nem be more likely to try and wrap up something that brushed it when not fed much?

In my experience any healthy fish would not be food. I have had HUGE anemones, both Bubble Tip and Long Tentacled and never had any fish get taken. I have had a very small carpet anemone capture fish until I removed it from the tank and separated with it's hosting clowns.

and go BLACKHAWKS!!!

Bob

 

[Adam]

Thanks Bob. I didn't know how capable they are at taking in prey. I'm planning on getting a purple corkscrew in a couple months and hope the clowns I have will move in.

With the Cardinals I have 2 paired off in QT, or I just got lucky and got them that way. The female pestered one in QT till it wouldn't eat and died. There is a 3rd in the DT now and the pair take turns harassing him. I've been trying to get him out but he's a quick little... and I think I'll need him to wear down a little more. The pair seldom show aggression towards each other and usually it's the female as the aggressor, especially after the male has eaten the eggs.

In Dan's case is it likely that the one he has left is a female and not paired so she's harassed the others to death and the last one was just so weak from lack of food that it sacumed to the Nem?

GO BLACKHAWKS!!
I'm looking forward to the World Cup in a couple weeks too.

 

[jennm]

I agree with Jin and Bob. Healthy fish don't get eaten. Anemones eat when hungry. They don't 'regurgitate' (they do poop though), if they are given food when they aren't hungry, they just reject it.

You said the fish were lethargic out of the bag... how long did you have the cardinals and chromis, and did you quarantine them?

Jenn

 

[danh]

I got the chromis all at the same time3 weeks before the bbq. One had gone missing by the time the bbq. One of the three that were left would still only sit in the corner. The other two were fairly active but still seemed off. They were harassing each other. I got the cardinals at the bbq. They were great at first. This last one though, just sat in the rocks most of the time. No food response. I feed pellets, shrimp and sea weed.

I saw this cardinal just an hour or two before I found him in the nem. He was as normal as he has been for weeks.


I've still got 7 other fish in the tank. All but one I've had longer than any of the fish that died.

I hadn't started QTing yet. I didn't have enough fish or coral in the tank to worry too much about it. I do now though.

 

[bobz]

anit77;1095883 wrote:
With the Cardinals I have 2 paired off in QT, or I just got lucky and got them that way. The female pestered one in QT till it wouldn't eat and died. There is a 3rd in the DT now and the pair take turns harassing him. I've been trying to get him out but he's a quick little... and I think I'll need him to wear down a little more. The pair seldom show aggression towards each other and usually it's the female as the aggressor, especially after the male has eaten the eggs.

In Dan's case is it likely that the one he has left is a female and not paired so she's harassed the others to death and the last one was just so weak from lack of food that it sacumed to the Nem?

GO BLACKHAWKS!!
I'm looking forward to the World Cup in a couple weeks too.

I didn't want to hijack this thread but a couple of thoughts.... first, yes agree with you that if the cardinal was being harassed and weak enough it would be fair game for the nem.
Second, here is a trick I use when I want to catch my Cardinals (like when they are about to release babies). Turn off all the lights at night in the room and the tank. Wait an hour or so, then turn on the tank lights. The Cardinals are usually "stunned" for a few mins and I can usually catch them more easily. You may want to try that to remove the odd fish out....

and lastly, world cup should rock! Looking forward to it too....
bob

 

[Adam]

Call me HJM.
In this case I'm hoping that the questions I'm asking can shed some insight as to why Dan's cardinal fell victim to the nem.


Dan you said that fish showed no food response. Did you ever see it being chased around the tank? Usually right at feeding time. That's what mine have done so I've started feeding on both sides of the tank. He still ends up getting chased but not before getting some food.
I'm going to try Bob's light trick real soon.

 

[danh]

I never saw the cardinals being harassed at all. The two more active chromis would harass each other. They actually damaged each other frequently.

 

[danh]

Interesting that this came up today. So with LOTS more than just a QT, apparently it's widely believed that you can have a legitimately ich free display. It's just not that feasible and it's is more common that most tanks do have it and the fish just don't show any symptoms. I think that might have been another thread where we discussed that.

Seeing as these fish were introduced to my tank months ago and the other fish are still fine, I feel like it wasn't a transmissible parasite or disease.

Although at this point, the money I have in livestock for this tank definitely means that I will set my qt up next time I get new fish. I've got all of it, I just have to implement.