New system/new skimmer selection

[ichthyoid]

My new system should end up being approximately 130 gallons, total water volume. So,...

I initially bought a Bubble Magus Curve 5, based on reviews/reputation as a solid workhorse of a skimmer for systems up ~140 gallons.

After some thought, I decided to get the larger Curve 7, due to a general desire to oversize skimmers by about 2x, to ensure good gas exchange. This is in spite of the Curve 5’s stellar reputation of being accurately sized. The Curve 7 rating is for 185-240 gallon systems, so close to double my system size. Closer to my comfort margin.

Side by side for comparison & only a 4 watt difference in motor power, means minimal added heat difference.

In any case, I’m liking the way the Curve 7 fits in that sump!




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[ricky5415]

Go with the biggest one that will fit your sump.

 

[ichthyoid]

I'm having trouble again with Tapatalk posting pics (what's new?), so here are the pics I was trying to post above-


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[Adam]

The Curve 7 is very close to my 1st skimmer. It did work good for me. At that size tank it should serve you well. You can't beat the price point either.

What other skimmers have you considered?

 

[ichthyoid]

Skimmers work on the principles of froth flotation (see also ion flotation), which has been known in manufacturing/chemical engineering for over 100 years.

In marine aquaria, it's positively charged calcium ions (+2) that bridges negatively charged 'proteins' (mostly fatty wastes) to negatively charged air bubbles & forms a froth.

Beyond a point, money doesn't buy results. That said, it's important to have stable calcium levels & an efficient/effective frothing pump.

Froth flotation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

My $0.02

 

[Adam]

Skimmers work on the principles of froth flotation (see also ion flotation), which has been known in manufacturing/chemical engineering for over 100 years.

In marine aquaria, it's positively charged calcium ions (+2) that bridges negatively charged 'proteins' (mostly fatty wastes) to negatively charged air bubbles & forms a froth.

Beyond a point, money doesn't buy results. That said, it's important to have stable calcium levels & an efficient/effective frothing pump.

Froth flotation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

My $0.02

Well, they also help with gas exchange by pulling co2 and adding to the dissolved o2. Then there's the contact time for the bubbles, which helps with both the gas exchange and foam fractionation. Which is why with your experience and knowledge I was wondering if there were any others you had looked at or used in the past.

At points I've had problems with low pH. It was a constant problem for me until I got the skimmer I'm using now. I had the pH issues solved until I started running a calcium reactor. Now I have to employ everything I can to keep the pH up. Large skimmer, co2 scrubber & Kalk. Any one of the three aren't running right or exhaust their media, the pH starts dropping. I was going to try aerating the effluent from the reactor but with my upcoming move I've tabled all tinkering.

After the Sea Side Aquatics ES2 I got the Reef Octopus SSS5000int that Dan now has. With my system being entirely in a basement I was having a hard time with low pH even with an outside airline run to the skimmer intake. That's when I started looking into contact time. After a lot of research I bought a custom 4' MTC MVX. After almost two years with this skimmer I'd say it's one of the best purchases I've made in the hobby. Until I brought the CARX online I was able to keep the pH above 8.1 at night. Unfortunately Marine Technical Concepts closed their doors last year. Now the closest you can get is LifeReef, unless you can find a used MTC on the web. I know most don't have room for a tall vertical skimmer and I envy those that have no issues with pH and can run smaller, under cabinet, units.

 

[ichthyoid]

Agreed. As mentioned, gas exchange is of prime importance and an often overlooked benefit of large skimming capacity (it's the reason I went larger).

I have and/or have had a bunch of skimmers, including a 3 foot tower (similar to below, 400-600 gal. rating). It was designed originally to run with a Beckett injector. I was planning to buy a big frothing pump like, Bubble Blaster, Red Dragon, etc. & convert it, but downsized my aspirations. The last system had a big Reef Octopus twin turbine monster (600 gal. rating) that I sold at the 2nd Coral Expo, when I liquidated a bunch of my equipment via a rented booth. There were/are many others.

My goals have changed, so I'm building a system with multiple smaller environments to allow me more flexibility, without the maintenance that comes with large displays (lots of glass to clean & BIG water changes!). I'll have a 50 gal. display + a 25 gal. frag tank to begin. I may later add another 25 gal. display refugium. A big goal is a focus on less complexity, more reliability & greater stability (& more 'me' time). I'll also have dual refugia (day & night duty). I may bring my batch denitrification filter back online, run it by either making (calcium acetate) or buying an organic calcium source like Tropic Marin Carbo-calcium (calcium formate), which raises pH, alkalinity & adds calcium all in one. It originally ran on methanol & did an excellent job! This would be in lieu of a calcium/kalk reactor, of which I have several also.

Running a calcium reactor will always pull down pH, due to the CO2 injected reacting with water to form carbonic acid. Pumping in the CO2 forces the equation to shift toward the acid side, it's just how the physics/chemistry works. That's a prime reason I decided to pursue the calcium acetate or formate solution. No down side, other than cost.

Here's a good video explaining the solubility differences between O2 & CO2 and perhaps more importantly, just how soluble CO2 really is-

O2 and CO2 solubility (video) | Gas exchange | Khan Academy

Get an intuition for why carbon dioxide is so much more soluble than oxygen when it goes into water. Rishi is a pediatric infectious disease physician and works at Khan Academy. These videos do not provide medical advice and are for informational purposes only. The videos are not intended to...

www.khanacademy.org

Fyi, here's a link to the denitrification filter-

Lifereef Automated Denitrifier

www.lifereef.com

 

[Adam]

You know the funny thing is, I have have hardly done anything with my system in months, it's basically been on auto pilot. I had an AWC setup for a short time in May/June but had issues with it and since then I've only done one water change. I've continued to add a couple of Brightwell products for trace though. The coral growth & appearance have never been better. So much so that over that time the Alk has dropped from 9ish to 7.5dkh. I tested it for the 1st time in over 6 weeks on Saturday

I feed the fish daily, clean the glass once or twice a week and clean the ATS every other week. Other than that I've only refilled the Kalk reactor & changed the lime in the co2 scrubber when needed. The only issues are some cyano in the display and GHA in the frag tank. I'm working on cleaning that up & slowly raising the alk. The skimmer just keeps plugging away and there's almost 4 gallons of skimmate in the bucket, which is going to need to be dumped soon I know this isn't sustainable long term but everything is going to be shut down shortly. I can't wait for the move to be over and to start the multiple build processes I'll be doing.

 

[ichthyoid]

A lot can be said for not fixing what isn't broken, in this hobby.

Here's a picture of that DDNW-250 from my last system, I mentioned above-

 

[Adam]

This is mine now.


And 2.5 gallons of skimmate.

 

[ichthyoid]

That thing should provide plenty of contact time, for sure!


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[sharis100]

Wow, that is some skimmer. I am looking at the new skimmer from maxspect as a possible choice on my rebuild, but that skimmer you have is impressive.

 

[Adam]

It's a shame MTC wasn't sold or passed on to a relative instead of just closed. They built some high quality products. The skimmer is put together like a tank. They used thicker acrylic than Lifereef does and charged less. The skimmer was $625 delivered. But I still would get a Lifereef in a heartbeat if/when the need arises.

The nice thing about these type skimmers is you can use whatever pump you want with them as long as it has enough flow. No expensive proprietary needle wheel pumps. I've got a DCP18000 connected to mine. It can be run internal or external too.

 

[sharis100]

So, in my new build I have a sump that will be located in the fishroom - so, I don’t need to worry about height. Would you say a Lifereef would be better then a needle wheel skimmer?

 

[Adam]

So, in my new build I have a sump that will be located in the fishroom - so, I don’t need to worry about height. Would you say a Lifereef would be better then a needle wheel skimmer?

If space constraints aren't an issue, yes 100%. Going taller just works, maintenance is a breeze and there are several other added benefits, like running a closed loop co2 scrubber is very easy with one of these.
The only downfall is the need for a skimmate locker. But they are pretty easy to DIY.

They make units that will fit under cabinets too but I think the limited height make them a tossup against a needle wheel skimmer. Also I think these are best for systems beginning at 120 gallons and up. 90 and smaller will be best served with a needle wheel. The one redeeming factor about the shorter LifeReef's is there's no set height range you have to run them at, only a height limit you can't go over. For most though, you just put it on the bottom of the sump and fire it up.

If you're up by Atlanta Aquarium or Nemo's in the next few weeks feel free to stop by I'm only about 10min from them. But around the beginning of October everything will be shut down in prep for the move. It'll be a few months before the system is back up and running but I'll be in Flowery Branch. I'd be happy to cut you a frag if you see something you like.

 

[sharis100]

My kitchen and house is being rebuilt from my disaster so, cant really go anywhere now. Too many contractors.... so, my system will be 160-180 in the kitchen,60-100 in sump, 45 refugium and 55 frag tank. So, Maybe this type of skimmer would work. Definitely would need the CO2 scrubber and a collection bucket. Maybe they can build me one with all of that included? I really didn’t know that Venturi skimmers were still available which is why I was looking at the maxspect duo skimmer. But now I need to rethink- as I hate cleaning a skimmer .

 

[sharis100]

Ps- will be hitting everyone up for frags once everything is back online and cycled- as we lost so much livestock due to disaster .

 

[sharis100]

If space constraints aren't an issue, yes 100%. Going taller just works, maintenance is a breeze and there are several other added benefits, like running a closed loop co2 scrubber is very easy with one of these.
The only downfall is the need for a skimmate locker. But they are pretty easy to DIY.

They make units that will fit under cabinets too but I think the limited height make them a tossup against a needle wheel skimmer. Also I think these are best for systems beginning at 120 gallons and up. 90 and smaller will be best served with a needle wheel. The one redeeming factor about the shorter LifeReef's is there's no set height range you have to run them at, only a height limit you can't go over. For most though, you just put it on the bottom of the sump and fire it up.

If you're up by Atlanta Aquarium or Nemo's in the next few weeks feel free to stop by I'm only about 10min from them. But around the beginning of October everything will be shut down in prep for the move. It'll be a few months before the system is back up and running but I'll be in Flowery Branch. I'd be happy to cut you a frag if you see something you like.

Just pulled the trigger on a new Lifereef skimmer build. Taking you experience and recommendations and putting it to use on our new build. Can’t wait to get it in a few months.