Nitrates increasing but why?

[porpoiseaquatics]

I started seeing a deterioation in coral quality a couple of weeks ago. Of course I wondered why. Started doing some testing. Ammonia = 0, NO2 = 0 but my NO3 was at 10. I did a water change and vacuumed some sand bed (not all). Tested again a few days ago and once again the same results except NO3 had crept up to 15. Today, NO3 is at 40!!!!

I have cheato and 2 large clams so I'm thinking that I should have 0 NO3. What in the world could cause this to escalate? A water change is in progress right now.

 

[shrimpy brains]

Is it possible anything died? Have you seen all your fish lately? Any large starfish or cucumbers or anything that could be decaying in your tank?

 

[sn4k33y3z]

Shrimpy Brains;1069510 wrote: Is it possible anything died? Have you seen all your fish lately? Any large starfish or cucumbers or anything that could be decaying in your tank?

+1 exactly what I was thinking.

 

[porpoiseaquatics]

Shrimpy Brains;1069510 wrote: Is it possible anything died? Have you seen all your fish lately? Any large starfish or cucumbers or anything that could be decaying in your tank?

I had a copper banded butterfly die but that was back two weeks before Christmas so well over a month ago. I wouldn't have thought that it would have that long a lasting affect especially with water changes. Granted, in a month, I've changed only 50g (after today it will be 70g).

 

[shrimpy brains]

How much clean up crew do you have? Was it a large CBB? It could be decaying somewhere still. I'm sure it's quite gross by now.

 

[porpoiseaquatics]

Shrimpy Brains;1069524 wrote: How much clean up crew do you have? Was it a large CBB? It could be decaying somewhere still. I'm sure it's quite gross by now.

It was a large...5" or so but I found the bones during a recent cleaning so there's nothing left of the fish. The hermits made sure of that.

 

[spike]

Jeff, How clean is your sump? Could your problem be coming from there? How many years has your tank been up?
Unless you do extremely large (75%) water changes you will not see a significant drop in your nitrates. Of course water changes never hurt.

 

[porpoiseaquatics]

Spike;1069526 wrote: Jeff, How clean is your sump? Could your problem be coming from there? How many years has your tank been up?
Unless you do extremely large (75%) water changes you will not see a significant drop in your nitrates. Of course water changes never hurt.

Well you hit on exactly what I went to this evening. While the chamber under my filter socks wasn't bad (not good either), the skimmer and skimmer chamber were far worse than I thought. I've taken those completely apart and did a thorough vacuum/cleaning on the chamber and skimmer. I was quite surprised at how much detrius had collected in the bottom of the skimmer even with all the turbulence it creates. Note to self: clean skimmer out more often.

I also had a filter sponge as a bubble break that I guess hadn't been cleaned in awhile. It's now very clean and will be from now on. Funny what you forget about over time.

The tank has been up and running for about 3 years now.

 

[sn4k33y3z]

Jeff,

On Sunday I witnessed a unique occurrence that seemingly affected my No3 level. Just shortly after a water change, hundreds of micro-brittle stars came out within the rocks(it looked like queen Medusa's head) and spawned(captured it on video- will upload some time soon). It had my tank water cloudy for roughly 45 minutes. So it was a rather short event. Had I not been present to witness it, I wouldn't have known none the wiser.

I vodka dose in-order to maintain/regulate my No3 level. Before the water change, it was 3ppm. After the spawning occurred, my No3 level raised to 20ppm.

 

[porpoiseaquatics]

Sn4k33y3z;1069538 wrote: Jeff,

On Sunday I witnessed a unique occurrence that seemingly affected my No3 level. Just shortly after a water change, hundreds of micro-brittle stars came out within the rocks(it looked like queen Medusa's head) and spawned(captured it on video- will upload some time soon). It had my tank water cloudy for roughly 45 minutes. So it was a rather short event. Had I not been present to witness it, I wouldn't have known none the wiser.

I vodka dose in-order to maintain/regulate my No3 level. Before the water change, it was 3ppm. After the spawning occurred, my No3 level raised to 20ppm.

WOW!! That's crazy!! I don't think mine was anything along those lines but I'm thinking that would've been pretty cool to watch.

 

[russ-iv]

hey jeff,
i think some sort of "event" happened. it probably happened a week ago and is breaking down just now. this week may be the hit you will take until the tank rebalances.

i would do 50% wc every 1-3 days. throw activated carbon in a reactor and replace with the wc's.

i dont think it is equipment related with such a huge jump like that.

 

[spike]

porpoiseaquatics;1069531 wrote: Well you hit on exactly what I went to this evening. While the chamber under my filter socks wasn't bad (not good either), the skimmer and skimmer chamber were far worse than I thought. I've taken those completely apart and did a thorough vacuum/cleaning on the chamber and skimmer. I was quite surprised at how much detrius had collected in the bottom of the skimmer even with all the turbulence it creates. Note to self: clean skimmer out more often.

I also had a filter sponge as a bubble break that I guess hadn't been cleaned in awhile. It's now very clean and will be from now on. Funny what you forget about over time.

The tank has been up and running for about 3 years now.

I asked age because I was fighting high nitrates in my display tank that had been up for 11 years (rock probably older) and determined rock was haboring a lot of my nitrates. Cooked a lot of rock I had laying around and brought it back and switched the rock out. Seems like nitrates are back to manageable levels.

 

[porpoiseaquatics]

Thanks all. I did what ended up being a 30g wc last night along with a super cleaning of the sump. Tested this morning and NO3 seems to be down a little. Making more water today to do another water change tomorrow. I'm also reading up on adding Brightwell's Katalyst to a reactor and see if that will help.

Russ....you are right that something happened. I just can't figure out what it was. No fish are missing. I have sold 4 pieces of live rock that had softies on them but those pieces were mostly replaced with new dead rock that has now began to coraline over. It's just weird.

As just a baseline....I tested my water change water and it tested as 0 NO3. I wanted to make sure I wasn't obtaining it from my change water and creating the problem that way.

 

[russ-iv]

porpoiseaquatics;1069603 wrote: Thanks all. I did what ended up being a 30g wc last night along with a super cleaning of the sump. Tested this morning and NO3 seems to be down a little. Making more water today to do another water change tomorrow. I'm also reading up on adding Brightwell's Katalyst to a reactor and see if that will help.

Russ....you are right that something happened. I just can't figure out what it was. No fish are missing. I have sold 4 pieces of live rock that had softies on them but those pieces were mostly replaced with new dead rock that has now began to coraline over. It's just weird.

As just a baseline....I tested my water change water and it tested as 0 NO3. I wanted to make sure I wasn't obtaining it from my change water and creating the problem that way.

200 gallon system with that kind of jump is a huge event imo.

You could vacuum out the substrate while you do the wc... hold it in your change water for 24 hours and see if the old water or DT increases in no3. The least it would do is rule out if the substrate is causing it or the rockwork.

I'd only suggest that if you are pulling the hair out of your head to find the cause.

Also you could have a lot of life in that substrate; then i would disregard while you troubleshoot.

Another option is to turn off the return for 12 hours, let the powerheads do their thing in the DT and take no3 samples from each chamber of the sump and correlate it with the display's water.

just spitballing here

 

[porpoiseaquatics]

Russ-IV;1069605 wrote: 200 gallon system with that kind of jump is a huge event imo.

You could vacuum out the substrate while you do the wc... hold it in your change water for 24 hours and see if the old water or DT increases in no3. The least it would do is rule out if the substrate is causing it or the rockwork.

I'd only suggest that if you are pulling the hair out of your head to find the cause.

Also you could have a lot of life in that substrate; then i would disregard while you troubleshoot.

Another option is to turn off the return for 12 hours, let the powerheads do their thing in the DT and take no3 samples from each chamber of the sump and correlate it with the display's water.

just spitballing here

I appreciate the suggestions.

 

[spike]

porpoiseaquatics;1069603 wrote: Thanks all. I did what ended up being a 30g wc last night along with a super cleaning of the sump. Tested this morning and NO3 seems to be down a little. Making more water today to do another water change tomorrow. I'm also reading up on adding Brightwell's Katalyst to a reactor and see if that will help.

Russ....you are right that something happened. I just can't figure out what it was. No fish are missing. I have sold 4 pieces of live rock that had softies on them but those pieces were mostly replaced with new dead rock that has now began to coraline over. It's just weird.

As just a baseline....I tested my water change water and it tested as 0 NO3. I wanted to make sure I wasn't obtaining it from my change water and creating the problem that way.

Jeff,

Define new dead rock. Rock never in a tank before? Or what looked like clean "been laying around rock"? That rock can be full of nitrates. After leaving rock out of water for months, soaking the rock in Muratic acid, and then pressure washing the daylights out of it. It still tested high for ammonia. I thought most of the dead material would have been removed in that process. Took weeks for the rock to cycle.

 

[camellia]

Spike;1069607 wrote: Jeff,

Define new dead rock. Rock never in a tank before? Or what looked like clean "been laying around rock"? That rock can be full of nitrates. After leaving rock out of water for months, soaking the rock in Muratic acid, and then pressure washing the daylights out of it. It still tested high for ammonia. I thought most of the dead material would have been removed in that process. Took weeks for the rock to cycle.

+1

How big of pieces of rock and porous were they?
Did you soak the new dead rock with the powerhead in water (changing out with clean water several times)? The die off inside rock can be huge and could be loosening up and coming out into your water column. If it is still creeping up that fast, I would remove the rock and put it in a bucket. Use water from WC and blow it out really good with the powerhead! Better yet I would just use clean RO water and change two or three times.

 

[porpoiseaquatics]

Spike;1069607 wrote: Jeff,

Define new dead rock. Rock never in a tank before? Or what looked like clean "been laying around rock"? That rock can be full of nitrates. After leaving rock out of water for months, soaking the rock in Muratic acid, and then pressure washing the daylights out of it. It still tested high for ammonia. I thought most of the dead material would have been removed in that process. Took weeks for the rock to cycle.

Hmmm.....well, I don't know if it had ever been in a tank before. I'm going to assume it has at some point. I don't know how long it was dry before placing it in my tank but I believe at least a year. Now that you mention this, it was about the same time that my nitrates started increasing.

 

[outdrsyguy1]

you may be on to it. that rock could have been totally inebriated with phosphates if it sat in an old tank growing algae before the owner finally tore it down.

 

[jennm]

Cleaning that sponge etc. will likely resolve the problem.

Rock can become a nutrient sink if it isn't maintained properly but I submit that tanks that are diligently maintained, are not doomed to 'old tank syndrome' (read: lazy hobbyist syndrome).

We maintained tanks that were a decade running and longer, and had no issues because we cleaned them every other week without fail - and cleaned and tested properly.

I don't think that 'acid wash' is necessary to resuscitate old rock but curing or re-curing will definitely cycle out old junk.

Jenn