Old Tank Syndrome

[mlevant]

I came across this on YouTube last night and thought it was interesting. Here's the url: http://www.youtube.com/user/newyorksteelo#p/u/7/TdEHN2fphn0">http://www.youtube.com/user/newyorksteelo#p/u/7/TdEHN2fphn0</a>. He has some very good points but I'm curious to what your thoughts are on starting over with removing all life rock/sand and buying new to battle old tank syndrome.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[jennm]

I didn't take the time to watch the video (don't have 16 mins to spare right now)... but I will say this: Old tank syndrome is a result of long-term neglect. We have maintained tanks for many years - some as long as 9 and 10 years, and never have a problem with "old tank syndrome" because the tanks *are* maintained on a regular schedule.

The biggest "problem" we have is with coral overgrowth

Old tank syndrome can happen in a relatively short time if a system is overstocked, and under-serviced. I've seen crazy buildups of phosphate and nitrate in relatively young tanks because of this, and I've seen tanks running 15+ years or more that are just fine, excellent water quality and health of inhabitants because the tanks were and are, properly taken care of.

Jenn

 

[jmaneyapanda]

JennM;597044 wrote: I didn't take the time to watch the video (don't have 16 mins to spare right now)... but I will say this: Old tank syndrome is a result of long-term neglect. We have maintained tanks for many years - some as long as 9 and 10 years, and never have a problem with "old tank syndrome" because the tanks *are* maintained on a regular schedule.

The biggest "problem" we have is with coral overgrowth

Old tank syndrome can happen in a relatively short time if a system is overstocked, and under-serviced. I've seen crazy buildups of phosphate and nitrate in relatively young tanks because of this, and I've seen tanks running 15+ years or more that are just fine, excellent water quality and health of inhabitants because the tanks were and are, properly taken care of.

Jenn

Agreed. Any aquarium "ailment" that has such an absurd and ridiculous name and description is rather foolhardy in my opinion.

 

[jennm]

OMG the sky is falling! Jeremy and I agree about something!

Seriously though, we see it a LOT in freshwater, mainly because people fudge on water changes - every 4 weeks, 6 weeks... "What's a water change?"

One tank we've been maintaining for 9 years this April, was a MESS when we picked up the account - nitrate off the chart, specific gravity in the brackish range... clearly whomever was "servicing" the thing, wasn't doing a very good job. We managed to get things back on track with a series of water changes to adjust the parameters that were out of whack and export the nutrients. 9 years later, that tank is freaking awesome. Parameters are spot on and everything thriving.

Jenn

 

[mlevant]

JennM;597044 wrote: I didn't take the time to watch the video (don't have 16 mins to spare right now)... but I will say this: Old tank syndrome is a result of long-term neglect. We have maintained tanks for many years - some as long as 9 and 10 years, and never have a problem with "old tank syndrome" because the tanks *are* maintained on a regular schedule.

The biggest "problem" we have is with coral overgrowth

Old tank syndrome can happen in a relatively short time if a system is overstocked, and under-serviced. I've seen crazy buildups of phosphate and nitrate in relatively young tanks because of this, and I've seen tanks running 15+ years or more that are just fine, excellent water quality and health of inhabitants because the tanks were and are, properly taken care of.

Jenn

Thanks Jenn..The longest system I had running was about 4 years and I never experience Old tank syndrome. Of course I keep up on maintenance. Actually that was the first time I heard of Old tank syndrome.

Mike

 

[jennm]

It's a term that's thrown around to explain a lot of things. Someone told one of my longtime customers this past summer, that was his problem when his anemones weren't doing so well. His water was perfect (I test it for him about every 2 or 3 weeks, he does his water changes religiously). He was given some iodine to dose (!!!!!!!!) without an iodine test...

Turns out his digital thermometer was 10 degrees wrong (tank was 86, not 76) and when I tested his iodine after he'd started dosing it, it was perilously high.

He put his fans back on the sump, quit the iodine, got a new thermometer and all is right with the world again. He bought his tank in early 2003.

"True" Old Tank Syndrome is an explanation of neglect. Nothing more, nothing less.

To help people understand the importance of water changes and adequate filtration and skimming for nutrient export, I explain it this way:

Every week your fish produce, say, 3 bags of trash. If your filtration/skimming and water change regimen is adequate, you "take out all of the trash." If you skimp, you may only remove one or two bags of trash, leaving some of the trash there. At first, it might not be a big deal having a bag of trash hanging around, but week after week, month after month, that leftover trash adds up until you have a hoarded house that is unfit to live in.

When I put into visual terms, people understand it better. Since most people who suffer a crash due to super-high nitrate etc., will often say, "But the water looks fine!" They don't always grasp that the toxins are usually invisible. Put it into terms where one can visualize - in this instance, the pile of bags of trash, it's easier to understand.

Old Tank Syndrome, to me, equals a hoarded house full of stuff and trash.

Jenn

 

[mlevant]

That makes sense. The guy on YouTube made it sound like nitrate and phosphates gets buffered into your live rock over time. That purchasing live rock from individuals that neglected there systems puts you in the category in the future of developing Old Tank syndrome. I've had the same live rocks in my 125 system until I got a 225 in which I bought additional live rock from someone who was battling hair algae. I have been able to get rid of 98% of it but I see little flare ups every now and then. This had me wondering if I would be attacked by the syndrome. lol

Mike

 

[jennm]

Well in that regard, he's right. If the system "piles up with trash" it does absorb into the rock, and will leach out over time. That's why many folks "cook" their live rock (no actual cooking is involved LOL) - meaning, they place it in a vessel, usually a trough or similar, usually in the dark, so algae won't grow, and with water movement and skimming for a period of time, to let all the nutrients process out.

If a tank is well maintained, there's no need to do this, since a buildup wasn't allowed to happen in the first place.

We often see this type of problem when someone buys a used, but up-and-running setup. Not always, but frequently, by the time someone gets around to selling their system, they've already let it go for a while, and the buyer gets more than he/she bargained for - particularly if they decide to save the water when they move it. I always tell folks to test the water or have it tested before saving it - there's no sense in moving a problem from point A, to point B. Occasionally the water is good, but usually it's not, so it is discarded and new water is prepared for the move. This won't eliminate the long-term problem but it will dilute the inevitable leaching out of past ills.

Jenn

 

[mlevant]

Oh ok, he did mention cooking the rock as option two but I'm not at that point. If I need the recipe I'll PM you. lol Thanks again Jenn for breaking this down.

Mike

 

[jennm]

Yeah, "cooking" is a bit of a misnomer, but basically it's letting it re-cure without light or livestock, and without adding more nutrients. Put it in a tub and let it 'simmer', as it were. As the junk leaches out (water testing will tell you what's coming out of it - phosphate, nitrate), water changes dilute and export it. In time, all or most of the latent nutrients are removed, while preserving the beneficial bacteria and most of the fauna, and the rock can be used again without negative consequence.

We've rehabilitated quite a bit of rock here over the years.

Jenn

 

[mlevant]

Kewl, thxs for the instructions. :thumbs:

Mike

 

[jennm]

The sky really *IS* falling - Charlie and Jeremy and I all agree!!!! (Just joking, gentlemen!)

Charlie - don't forget mechanical failure... unfortunately that's the one variable that can and does get even the best and most conscientious hobbyist from time to time

Jenn

 

[superclown]

I had trouble with my tanks about 4 months ago. I was finally able to get back on track with chris helping me at Einstein aqautics but this is pretty much spot on the advice he gave me now my tank looks great corals are thriving water is crystal clear all simply by doing water changes on a more frequent schedule Jenns explanation is sound and solid to me

 

[acroholic]

The Key to success with a reef tank (or any other aquarium, for that matter), IME, is regular amounts of small maintenance. You can't play catch up too much with a reef system. Regular maintenance and you will probably never have to worry about OTS.

 

[jennm]

Acroholic;597197 wrote: The Key to success with a reef tank (or any other aquarium, for that matter), IME, is regular amounts of small maintenance. You can't play catch up too much with a reef system. Regular maintenance and you will probably never have to worry about OTS.

Amen.