Our Duty As Hobbyists

[nishant3789]

Just a few simple questions i want to ask, there was a very good discussion in another thread, that i once again apologize for hijacking, but i am going to repost some of my questions here so that it may reach a wider audience.

1. Do we as hobbyists have a duty to help protect the reefs and oceans?
2. Would you pay more for a fish/coral that you knew was collected through CITES standards or through certified collection procedures?
3. What is the net impact of us even having many of the things we have in our tanks on the oceans? Direct and indirect.

BTW- please everyone lets keep things friendly, even if we dont all agree.

 

[ouling]

1. Yes, but we don't do that, if we do then we would buy ALL of our stuff as aquacultured.

2. Yes, I pay alot more for aquacultured stuff, all my corals are.

3. Direct but to small extent relatively; because we're telling the colletor that we are willing to pay more for rare corals and fish, along with big clams and rocks. Thats why they do the things they do to get it.

 

[jdav]

1. no
2. no
3.not hardly any at all

 

[cameron]

1. no, but as a resource it should be protected by citizens at least to some degree.

2. sounds reasonable, but when push comes to shove I honestly look for the best deal.

3. I would say very direct. There is no telling how much damage we have done to the exotic fish population just from poor collection techniques or from pulling up huge chunks of live rock. That said and in all fairness, it pails to the damage done by pollution in the water and other sources of reef damage.

In the end, environmental concerns fall way low on my priority scale so to a rather large extent my considerations are very self serving.

 

[washowi]

HELL YES to item 1.

HELL YES to Item 2...(we already do that)

Item 3....we have things in our tanks that may HELP the oceans by reseeding them...Wouldn't it be nice to reseed the Gulf with Staghorn and Elkhorn corals again.....We study the corals under close observation 24 hours a day...We know more about corals and how to protect them now. So by us having corals we can better judge what to do to save them in the wild...for the most part we have farmed raised corals now anyway.

 

[nishant3789]

washowi;52202 wrote: So by us having corals we can better judge what to do to save them in the wild...for the most part we have farmed raised corals now anyway.

Yes, we can better judge how to to help those in the wild, but that doesnt mean that we are doing it! Farm raised corals sadly dont really make up a big piece of the pie in importated corals.

 

[nishant3789]

as for CITES regulations, not all countries are a part of it, and even though we are, several other countries with hobbyists just like us may have access to some of these rarer and more endangered corals.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

Nishant- I dont know if you are interpreting CITES regulations correctly. CITES does apply to all international commerce of endangered species and any of their derivatives. Countries do not get to chose or not chose their involvement. It also has really nothing to do with collection techniques. They will instead regulate international commerce based on guidelines. Now, some of these guidelines may be created due to collection practices, but that is the extent of their association. Whether we like it or not, we are all complying with CITES regulations, unless, of course, we are illegally smuggling and importing species- but that is another matter.

Anyway, to answer your questions-
1) I feel we do have a duty- not through necessity nor implications, but instead due to rampant misinformation and misperception. How many people think the worlds reefs are in danger because of the corals in my aquarium? But have no concept whatsoever that agricultural runoff, and pollution, and other such non hobby related attributes are REALLY causing the reefs demise? I feel we have the obligation to help those who dont know anythings about reefs (ever heard about the wonderful "plants" you have in your tank?) nor how this hobby has benefitted itself, no less the wild ecosystem.

2)I am not quite sure what this question means, but if it is, "would I buy a more expensive animal if it were properly collected?", the answer is wholeheartedly, YES. In relation to other discussions, if you are not a part of the solution, then you are part of the problem. If I were to buy an animal that I KNEW had been captured in an ecologically unsound way, simply because it was cheaper- when a safer and more ethical way were an option at a higher cost, I would be part of the issues this hobby has struggled with for years on end. The reason this hobby is trying desperately to end actions such as cyanide and dynamite collection is not because it is costing hobbyist too little, but because it destroys the environment. The conditions above being considered, I find it hard to believe that anyone on this forum would say cost is all that matters.

3) In this topic, I have a more biased view. I work closely with environmental and wildlife regulators, so I know the efforts and restrictions involved. In as much, I would say that they is very little to no danger of anything in the ocean going extinct because we want it in our aquariums. The past has shown some awful contradictions to this, but many companies, policies, and laws are currently in place to help protect this. For example, today, you xcan easily buy cultured manmade rock, in place of the days when gulf rock collection was rampant. Laws are now in place to preserve such issues.

 

[washowi]

Nishant3789;52205 wrote: as for CITES regulations, not all countries are a part of it, and even though we are, several other countries with hobbyists just like us may have access to some of these rarer and more endangered corals.

Dude I am confused about you? You work in or own a fish store? Because based on a few things I followed recently you don't seem too "Ocean Friendly" in your posts....If I am wrong, forgive me. I mean no ill will. But you sided with taking things out of Florida waters without a license and now it appears you don't think that having corals benefits the oceans? Or that most of our tanks have wild colonies? I not too sure how you come by that, but my tank for one does not have 1 wild colony. All are 100% raised from frags or others colonies.

Even if we do have wild colonies, the very few limited amounts that come out can and will help out the reef systems. Nowhere else can one observe a coral colony 24rs a day 7 days a week 365 days a year. We know more about corals than we ever have because of aquariums.

I just read Stan Waterman's book "Sea Salt" - He goes into how HE used to Dynamite reefs, Gas Reefs, and do whatever they wanted to about the reefs, they thought it was unlimited supply and they could do not harm. He now knows better and is embarrassed about his actions. He commends the actions and the practices now used. Sure there are isolated pockets that do what ever they like. But for the MOST part. It is done with knowledge of the reef and no reef is taken from that the entire ecosystem of the reef will be harmed. It's take a bit from here and move and get from there. So that the reefs never suffer. Taking from the ocean is not a crime.

If it is done correctly it will never notice it. I fear more for Sharks and fish than the coral reefs. They will ALWAYS be there. Global warming is my opinion is BS. It is just the earth doing what the earth does. Look at Greenland and Iceland.....ever wonder why they are called what they are? Now they should be called opposite of what they are.

The Earth's evolution is cyclical. We are in a cycle.

Anyway I am running off topic.

We are stewards of the Ocean and whether you like it or not, so are you and we should be proud of what we are doing. If anything I am a teacher now!

My tank and my involvement in the GAI has changed the opinions and minds of 100's by now. Maybe more. Maybe less. But if one mind was changed by my involvement in the hobby and lifestyle, then I have made a difference.

We have the responsibility and the ability to teach people everyday. Do it. Shows actions that better the hobby. Don't say "take whatever you want from the ocean, the rules don't apply to us" like you have. Say "Don't touch a freaking thing there and take only pictures"

Anyway I am rambling and have really lost the topic here. Bye.

:confused2:

 

[victor626nj]

leveldrummer;52281 wrote: i have no opinion in the beef of this discussion, im a simple guy, and i feel that if anyone of us has a problem with the impact our hobby has on nature, first thing you should do is SELL YOUR TANK!! if you keep a tank, you have no right to complain, not untill all fish are captive bred, and all corals are aquacultured. its like some one sitting down to eat a steak dinner and preaching that eating animals is wrong. just doenst make sense to me to have this argument.

but....

i prefer aquacultured corals, simply because they tend to be hardier, they grow to MY tank, rather then being thrust into a situation where they may more maynot like the flow/light etc. and for lots of other reasons.

i agree i feel as long as tings are controled to were we just cant go into the ocean and pic up all the corals we want things will be just fine besides if corals can grow in our tanks the way they do i bet they grow much faster in there natural habitat b jmho but i agree with what you have to say about not having ann aquarium if your gonna complain about the eco system

 

[jetchris]

prob cheapest price

 

[jetchris]

jk i support the highest priced most honorable coral available. I would pay 4x more than anyone else would pay just to know its right. **** those coral rapiststs!!!!!! Theres only one way to pay for coral and the highest most outrageous price is the way to go!!! As long as it is aquacultured than that is the way to go. For instance I was at a LFS and there were 2 frogspawns. One was ripped from the figi ocean $30 and one was aquacultured $75/ You better believe i paid for the more expensive one!! **** those red blooded american *******s who want to save a dollar!! SPEND MORE FOR THE SAME THING!!!!!!!!!

 

[jetchris]

lets ahve fun !!!

 

[ouling]

I buy aqacultured cultured stuff mainly because it is more likely to do well in my tank; the eco friendly thing fills in the gap. I've seen my wild caught fish mysteriously die in a month or two, and all the other tank bred fish is fine. I'm sticking to the tank raised guys.

 

[nishant3789]

washowi;52248 wrote: Dude I am confused about you? You work in or own a fish store? Because based on a few things I followed recently you don't seem too "Ocean Friendly" in your posts....If I am wrong, forgive me. I mean no ill will. But you sided with taking things out of Florida waters without a license and now it appears you don't think that having corals benefits the oceans? Or that most of our tanks have wild colonies? I not too sure how you come by that, but my tank for one does not have 1 wild colony. All are 100% raised from frags or others colonies.


:confused2:

No sorry if i was unclear, but i do NOT support the illegal collection of animals and plants from the oceans or rivers or lakes, etc. I do think it is okay provided you have the correct permits, etc. If one would look closely, i have not really put my personal answers to the question yet, that will come in a little while, i am just another hobbyist honestly, attempting to learn more. as for the frags that you may have in your tank, just because they are frags, it does not mean they are aquacultured. Frags unfortunately can also have a detrimental effect on wild colonies if taken from them. The exposed skeleton is liable to infection and disease, etc. You can assure, i definetely feel that we have a duty to help educate at the very least those who do not understand about ocean conservation.

as for panda, thank you for clearing up points about CITES, you are right, i did misinterpret the concept behind it. I figured that like sevearl other enviormental treaties, this one did not obligate the whole globe to it. So +1 rep to you!

this thread is definetely coming along nicely.

 

[kappaknight]

I'm not sure if you all sat through the presentation last month... but for some of the parts I saw if I remember correctly, sometimes collecting from the ocean for the purpose of the hobby (in moderation) does help preserve the reefs in some way. If you teach the locals that they can make more money selling live rocks as live rocks instead of a base for construction material or decorative junk, then they will do even more to protect the life that are in the rocks.

Of course, everything is best when done in moderation...

 

[cameron]

There are areas in the world where collection (mostly from poor collection techniques) has decimated their reefs so I wouldn't say fish collection isn't responsible for at least some horrific changes in local ecology. I would also add that simply running that much electricity to power many of our tanks is also ecologically unfriendly as a large portion of that electricity is from coal power plants for most of us. There probably are some minor residual benefits from maintaining a home aquarium, but I doubt they outweight the environmental impact.

I have no doubt about the fact that my fish tank impacts the environment negatively. I don't think it is that much, but I don't kid myself on the extraction of a natural resource from the ocean either. You simply cannot remove the numbers of fish from the ocean that we do for collection and not have a negative impact on the environment. Granted it is tiny and I mean very tiny compared to fishing and such, but still a negative nonetheless. Fortunately it is a renewable resource, but few people consider it such and don't think of conservation until it is too late in places.