Ozone/UV

[james s_]

Which is more effective/safe to use on my 800 gallon system? Ive been contemplating which to use and would like some feedback from others who are using either of these.

A couple point Ive been considering is the ease of operation/maintenence and the cost associated with upkeep.

I do have an AC3 I plan to use with an ORP probe so I could monitor the Ozone if I went that route.

What are the benefits of one over the other?

Ive been looking hard at JDPierces setup which is a 57W UV w/pump. I may buy it, but now Im wondering would I be better off using ozone or maybe even a bigger UV setup for my system? Could it be possible that I should use neither and save my money?

 

[mojo]

Man... it seems this topic comes up about once a month. We need a wiki...

I'm a big fan of ozone over UV, but not monitoring using ORP. ORP is a good indication of the overall health of your system, but chasing ORP values is generally a bad thing, and ORP probes can foul pretty easily.

The big advantage, IMO, of ozone over UV is that you can a) easily control the dosage and b) there's no heat added to the system. For a 57w UV w/ pump, you'll be adding almost the equivalent of 60watts of heat into your tank 24x7. For a 500g reef, this will be negligible. For a 125g reef, that might impact your system. I fight heat all the time, and the last thing I want to do is add yet another source of it.

Both are effective, although the extent of the UV for killing parasites is unknown, since it's been shown that they don't typically live in the water column. Ozone helps remove/breakdown organics in the water - I can directly show you the results of that. Perhaps the best system would use both...

Check out my thoughts on ozone in

 

[blind1993]

uv is safer

you do not have to get either, you can just try to keep your water quality up by other things.

 

[cameron]

I would be suprised if 57w of light energy is converted into 57w of heat since the tube and ambient air have to absorb some of that energy. I may run a test and see how much temp is going in versys coming out. Shouldn't be that hard to do. You can also feed the UV off the drain which is what I did.
Anyway, I don't notice the tank heat in my 170ish system running 36w personally.

The BIG advantage of UV over ozone is the safety aspect. Ozone can do wonderously bad things to the brain so you have to be doubly careful when using it and carbon its outputs both air and water. I personally have run both and both seem to do a good job clearing up the water column although ozone seems to be a bit better. With UV you have 6 month bulb replacements which can be a pain. With ozone you have to replace carbon somewhat frequently and it can be toxic in the home if not monitored, but it is a relative no maintenance thing beyond that. Ozonizers work for a very long time to boot.

 

[james s_]

If I did do the ozone I would probably inject straight into my Dart NW skimmer. And if I decide to use the UV I have an extra 1" drain I could use to feed it so I could eliminate the heat from a pump. I know this has been probably beat to death in the past,but Im just having a hard time deciding between the two,since I have never used either on my tanks.

The safety aspects of the ozone bother me a bit. My fish room is going to be sealed from my house completely,and Im sure the room would fill up fast if it decided to leak out.Could you exhaust the ozone out of the house somehow,or maybe I just dont get how it actually works?

The UV lamp replacament every 6 months concerns me a bit. Thats $100 bucks annually. How much would it be to keep up the ozone? What sort of carbon filter do you use for ozone?

 

[mojo]

Cameron;112454 wrote: I would be suprised if 57w of light energy is converted into 57w of heat since the tube and ambient air have to absorb some of that energy. I may run a test and see how much temp is going in versys coming out. Shouldn't be that hard to do. You can also feed the UV off the drain which is what I did.

No, there won't be a 100% transfer rate between UV and heat. However, I assumed that the pump wouldn't be 100% efficient, either. This is an interesting discussion that I was part of over at RC for a while. Energy cannot be created or destroyed. The 57w going into that UV sterilizer, powerhead, or anything else *must* go somewhere, and in this case, it'll be heat. In the case of UV, yes, some will be released back into the air.

"Lisa, we obey the laws of thermodynamics in this house!" - Homer Simpson

Anyway, I don't notice the tank heat in my 170ish system running 36w personally.

Nope- I wouldn't expect you would.

The BIG advantage of UV over ozone is the safety aspect. Ozone can do wonderously bad things to the brain so you have to be doubly careful when using it and carbon its outputs both air and water. I personally have run both and both seem to do a good job clearing up the water column although ozone seems to be a bit better. With UV you have 6 month bulb replacements which can be a pain. With ozone you have to replace carbon somewhat frequently and it can be toxic in the home if not monitored, but it is a relative no maintenance thing beyond that. Ozonizers work for a very long time to boot.

No doubt- some people are vey sensitive to ozone, and kids are that much more sensitive. I personally don't bother with carbon with my ozone (and I'm not convinced that it does any good, since carbon doesn't absorb dissolved gasses, but I'm not a chemical engineer), and I haven't had a problem in the past 3 years.

 

[james s_]

mojo;112456 wrote:
No doubt- some people are vey sensitive to ozone, and kids are that much more sensitive. I personally don't bother with carbon with my ozone (and I'm not convinced that it does any good, since carbon doesn't absorb dissolved gasses, but I'm not a chemical engineer), and I haven't had a problem in the past 3 years.

Well me and the wife are having a baby in February so maybe subjecting ozone into my house is not a great idea. What are the side effects to ozone exposure?

 

[mojo]

46bfinga;112455 wrote: If I did do the ozone I would probably inject straight into my Dart NW skimmer. And if I decide to use the UV I have an extra 1" drain I could use to feed it so I could eliminate the heat from a pump. I know this has been probably beat to death in the past,but Im just having a hard time deciding between the two,since I have never used either on my tanks.

IME, I can directly show you what happens with and without ozone -just use the white bucket test. I haven't been able to see the same hard results from UV. Your mileage may vary. If it makes you (or your fish) sleep better at night, go UV.

The safety aspects of the ozone bother me a bit. My fish room is going to be sealed from my house completely,and Im sure the room would fill up fast if it decided to leak out.Could you exhaust the ozone out of the house somehow,or maybe I just dont get how it actually works?

O3 can be vented pretty easily. If the room will be sealed separately from the house, you'll be fine. Some people are sensitive enough that they get headaches in their fish room with ozone, but I've never had anyone report that in my own fish room (I personally don't vent mine). It can be vented pretty easily - a simple fan to the outside is enough, but I haven't seen any reports that show exactly how much you should vent, etc.

lamp replacament every 6 months concerns me a bit. Thats $100 bucks annually. How much would it be to keep up the ozone? What sort of carbon filter do you use for ozone?

I don't use anything, and I don't bother with air dryers, either. There's too much humidity in the fish room (or just in general in GA) to bother. It's been estimated that a generator is about 40-50% less efficient without drying the air, but if you use the white bucket test, you'll be adjusting based on need and not numbers, anyway...

 

[mojo]

46bfinga;112457 wrote: Well me and the wife are having a baby in February so maybe subjecting ozone into my house is not a great idea. What are the side effects to ozone exposure?

http://www.idph.state.il.us/envhealth/factsheets/ozone.htm">http://www.idph.state.il.us/envhealth/factsheets/ozone.htm</a>

While I won't discount ozone's power, we're not talking about plumes of poisonous gasses pouring from your tank... I'd say it really depends on your fish room setup... Again, if your fish room is sealed separately from the main part of your house, then I wouldn't worry about it.

Oh - and crongrats on the baby! :)

 

[james s_]

mojo;112458 wrote:
O3 can be vented pretty easily. If the room will be sealed separately from the house, you'll be fine. Some people are sensitive enough that they get headaches in their fish room with ozone, but I've never had anyone report that in my own fish room (I personally don't vent mine). It can be vented pretty easily - a simple fan to the outside is enough, but I haven't seen any reports that show exactly how much you should vent, etc.

Well I am allready planning on installing exhaust fans controlled by a thermostat for use in the winter so I have that covered.

 

[james s_]

mojo;112460 wrote: http://www.idph.state.il.us/envhealth/factsheets/ozone.htm">http://www.idph.state.il.us/envhealth/factsheets/ozone.htm</a>

While I won't discount ozone's power, we're not talking about plumes of poisonous gasses pouring from your tank... I'd say it really depends on your fish room setup... Again, if your fish room is sealed separately from the main part of your house, then I wouldn't worry about it.

Oh - and crongrats on the baby! :)[/QUOTE]


Thanks:thumbs: So what size ozone would I need for a system my size? Could I get away with 50 mg? I could compliment that with the 57 w. UV which is a bit undersized for my tank anyways. Any idea on how to inject ozone into my skimmer? Could it be T'ed into my venturi intake which is going to be fed by an Alita 40 air pump?

 

[skriz]

James, I use ozone. With ozone, there is no bulb to replace or anything. Practically maintenance free. With ozone, you constantly have to clean the unit so that the light will get maximum penetration and replace the bulb often.

Any carbon will work with ozone and yes you can plumb it into the venturi. You will just need to make sure that the line stays clear and is not blocked.

I have my system "sealed" and an exhaust fan run to the outside. In the summer, it runs constantly. I will probably change that next year. You could probably configure it to always be on when ozone is on (could be done with 2 fans?). I have my output water going through carbon and the output air from the skimmer (via collection cup) filtered with carbon.

Since it will be in a fish room, it would be pretty safe (imo).

fwiw, all ozone units are pretty much the same. it is very basic technology that one can't really do better than the other. I bought a cheap Enaly unit from ebay. i think it cost me $25-30 shipped. It tool my tank from pic #1 to crystal clear!
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[james s_]

Hey Raj, Do you have a pic of the unit you have and how you filter it on your skimmer? Do you plan on injectin the ozone into your new skimmer? What size Ozone unit are you using? Are you controlling it with anything?

 

[skriz]

I'll take a pic for you, the unit is really small, so that's nice.

I don't plan on injecting ozone into the new skimmer. I will get an ozone reactor to run the ozone through, that way I can isolate/filter the ozone better.

I control it with the milwakee orp controller. Works really well. In fact, after it cleared up the tank, it hardly comes on. Like Chris, I don't rely on an orp reading alone; I do the bucket test also. If the water is yellowish, I'll dial the controller back and make it turn on. If it's good, then I don't worry about it. I use the controller mainly as a tool to make sure the unit turns off before the orp get too high.

As far as how I have it plumbed into the skimmer...directly into the beckett injector. The "sucking" action of the beckett will draw in the ozone. The collection cups are plumbed into a collection tank which has an air outlet at the top. This outlet has a cup of carbon in it, which filters the air as it comes out. The outputs of the skimmer (water) flow directly into bags of carbon.

Since I have shut down the ozone right now, I can't show you pics of the setup.

 

[skriz]

Enaly & ORP
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[james s_]

dawgdude;112503 wrote:
-Ozone is a VERY distinctive smell and if its in the room you know it. It immediately gives you a headache and isnt a place you want to stay in. Odds are it wont be like carbon monoxide where you just fall asleep and never wake up. You will know when its in the air.

I would definately like to avoid that at all costs.

 

[cameron]

If you go ozone and inject it through the skimmer, make sure your tubes drawing air into your skimmer are ozone safe. Some pumps come with ozone safe tubing others don't.

I would go with an undersized unit that way if it freaks out it won't dose more than can kill your tank. Mike turned me onto that one. Ozone that is allowed to leach into the tank can adversely effect the livestock but more importantly bacteria is easily damaged by ozone so letting it unchecked into the main display is not advised.

Carbon does indeed "filter" out ozone as ozone oxidizes on its surface.

 

[dannybradley]

I'm a little late chiming in on this one, but there's another issue with U.V. in that it will also cause accelerate breakdown of chelates. Products like Kent Tech I run through a U.V. will cause a huge spike in Iodine, instead of a gradual release. I'm don't know how how ozone will affect chelates.

 

[cameron]

Aside from not knowing what adding Iodine or Iodide into a reef system actually accomplishes. I am not sure what coupling is done in the Iodine chemistry. Do they bond it with some organic substance which UV destroys? Where did you read this as I am curious as to what UV does to the Kent Marine Tech I to cause it to decouple faster than normal... course Tech I sounds pretty unnatural to begin with as most other Iodine or Iodide based products are sucked up very fast in the water column anyway as that stuff bonds with practically everything.

 

[mwitten]

Cameron;112547 wrote: If you go ozone and inject it through the skimmer, make sure your tubes drawing air into your skimmer are ozone safe. Some pumps come with ozone safe tubing others don't.

I would go with an undersized unit that way if it freaks out it won't dose more than can kill your tank.

Just saw this thread... I wondered if anyone would mention this part.

I used Ozone for quite a while, but have stopped for now. I found it very hard on skimmer and other components over time. A venturi I had I believe was deteriorated by it, and I really feel it deteriorated any plastic it came in contact with on an extended basis. If I use it again, a separate reactor is how I would go.

While I did not control it with an ORP probe per-se, on my first use, I really overdosed it and the ORP went through the roof (and I could see some strange effects on the tank). So, I keep it cranked down, and used the ORP probe as a high-value cutoff (kind of emergency thing). I think I have a Red Sea generator/controller unit.

Oh, and most ozone generators like dry air. Since I moved the sump to a stand-up crawl space under my house, that was hard to maintain. My dryer beads would get used up in about 3 days...

Now, did it help? Yes, it did polish the water well. Not sure if it helped with any diseases. I run carbon now, and get a similar effect. I have never used a UV unit, so I can't compare.

Hope this helps...

-Mike