Personal rant: What really grinds my gears...

[civics14]

You know what really grinds my gears in this hobby? Hobbyist claiming their opinion as if it is a fact or a need to be successful.

When I first started this hobby, I wanted to get LEDs, cause the idea of not having to change bulbs in T5s and heat from MH. I was told that if I don't get Radions, I wouldn't be able to grow corals or T5s & MH is the only proven lights to grow corals. What BS that was. I went with RapidLED Onyx for years and had amazing growth. I recall showing a reefer my current tank when I was running these lights and pretty much in disbelief and it was impossible because he couldn't get that kind of growth out of his radions. Cause he spent $800 a fixture and I spent $125 a fixture.

Same goes with pumps, for years I was told Jebao wouldn't cut it and it would fry my tank and that MP40s were the way to go and better made. Years go by, I never had my Jebao give me issues luckily and yes there are some out there that fails, but MP40s having busted rusted magnets destroying people's tanks as well.

And not to bash anyone but this whole salt debate. Years ago, there wasn't the options there are today on salt and there are plenty of reefers out there now and then that have massive colonies grown using instant ocean. Heck, I have a friend that had an amazing tank using purely LFS water that I'm sure they're using the cheap instant ocean as well. People suggesting that you need to spend double or triple the amount on a bucket of salt as if anything else will compromise the future of their tank.

I get it, it worked for some of you and you can afford it. However, I recall when I was a new reefer and I was being told that I need to spend X amount of money if I want to have a successful tank, it becomes intimidating and some people don't even bother entering the hobby because of it.

Then there are those that go and buy the newest and fanciest equipment to start their new system listening to all these advice thinking that since they did this that they would have a successful tank. Soon to find out that it's more than just the fanciest equipment, most expensive salt or whatever, and their tank starts to die off and they wonder where they went wrong cause they spent thousands on their setup. Next thing they know they're selling off their equipment and exiting the hobby.

It really annoys me because it feels like hobbyist needs to justify their spending on their newest fanciest equipment so they come on these public boards and pass off their opinions as a need or fact.

Then to top that all off, I will see some of these "successful" tanks because of their new apex or radions and its a tank of frags. People calling a frag with a few branches mini colonies these days and thinking they are a successful tank because they can grow a few branches.

That's all... Just had to get it off my chest.

My advice to all reefers time and time again...

• Stability is key. Whatever you do, keep things stable.
• Don't look for quick fixes in a bottle. Last resort only.
• Take each advice with a grain of salt and look for consistencies in these advice.

 

[FutureInterest]

I mostly agree.

I use Jebao return pumps and crossflows in every system. The crossflows can do 10k gph according to them... I still have 4 MP60s on the tank but the crossflows kick ass. I also use only jebao return pumps. They do a great job.

My lighting is mostly old school... And some new school. I have metal halide mixed with t5 mixed with LEDs. The LEDs are currently noopsyche, radions, and reefbrights.

Salt is different for me, since they all basically cost the same per gallon... I have used tm for over a decade but I'm liking the hw.

Simply put, I use what I know to work well. That comes from experience. Same for you. For those that are new, they won't go wrong getting the latest hyped equipment. They don't know where they can save and where not to go skimpy... Might be a good write up...

 

[civics14]

I mostly agree.

I use Jebao return pumps and crossflows in every system. The crossflows can do 10k gph according to them... I still have 4 MP60s on the tank but the crossflows kick ass. I also use only jebao return pumps. They do a great job.

My lighting is mostly old school... And some new school. I have metal halide mixed with t5 mixed with LEDs. The LEDs are currently noopsyche, radions, and reefbrights.

Salt is different for me, since they all basically cost the same per gallon... I have used tm for over a decade but I'm liking the hw.

Simply put, I use what I know to work well. That comes from experience. Same for you. For those that are new, they won't go wrong getting the latest hyped equipment. They don't know where they can save and where not to go skimpy... Might be a good write up...

Yeah, I saw that BRS video and the pricing they put up is retail pricing which most people will rarely pay. However, as a new hobbyist , $90 a bucket is very intimidating vs. a bucket of instant ocean on Amazon for $31.

Exactly regarding what worked for me. And I'm not trying to argue anyone's method won't work, but at the same time, I'm not going to argue my method is the right and only way.

 

[FutureInterest]

Yeah, I saw that BRS video and the pricing they put up is retail pricing which most people will rarely pay. However, as a new hobbyist , $90 a bucket is very intimidating vs. a bucket of instant ocean on Amazon for $31.

Exactly regarding what worked for me. And I'm not trying to argue anyone's method won't work, but at the same time, I'm not going to argue my method is the right and only way.

Yah, I don't pay retail for anything. If they're all discounted the actual cost per gallon is still around the same.

Anyways, I also rarely buy anything new... That's the area that I think is most painful to witness... When I see brand new reefers buy sparkly new equipment that could be purchased used but in good condition sometimes for pennies on the dollar.

 

[ActiveAngel]

@civics14
I agree 100%. All of the above grind my gears as well.

Above all else, it pains me when I see people taking advantage of beginner reefers for personal profit. From my perspective, this is equivalent to bullying; by pushing themselves into and taking advantage of those who can’t/won’t protest. It’s not cool.

 

[civics14]

@civics14
I agree 100%. All of the above grind my gears as well.

Above all else, it pains me when I see people taking advantage of beginner reefers for personal profit. From my perspective, this is equivalent to bullying; by pushing themselves into and taking advantage of those who can’t/won’t protest. It’s not cool.

My goal as a hobbyist is to get other people into the hobby so our community can grow. Not to intimidate them to thinking that if they don't do something a certain way or spend a certain amount that there success chance is lessened.

 

[ichthyoid]

I’ve been in and out of this hobby for over 40 years. Here’s what I’ve learned about the systems & equipment used.

You can go-
-high tech
-low tech, or
-no tech
...and make any one of them work.

Most people don’t fail because of lack of know how. Most fail for lack of discipline (and the consistency that results from it).

Agreed. Some things aren’t completely related to money, such as a light or pump.

What is related to success is automation. Why? Because it makes the discipline easier.
Buy a used Apex Classic if you have to, but just about everyone can benefit from using a controller. Ask the ones with beautiful tanks!

As for the salt, an extra $10/month isn’t going to be a blip on the budget of just about anyone in THIS hobby. As for me, I won’t be cleaning any more mud from my mixing barrel or worrying whether cheating compounds are going to harm a $150 frag I’ve been craving. It’s worth my peace of mind.
My $0.02

 

[DiefsReef]

Yah, I don't pay retail for anything. If they're all discounted the actual cost per gallon is still around the same.

Anyways, I also rarely buy anything new... That's the area that I think is most painful to witness... When I see brand new reefers buy sparkly new equipment that could be purchased used but in good condition sometimes for pennies on the dollar.

I read this post about 10 min after I bought BRS's HIREEF2 Professional Reef Test Kit For myself I try to decide how much I will use something and how important the item is to whatever I'm doing. If its something I feel needs to be completely reliable, then I'll look for new as apposed to used, just always been my way. In this case a few months ago i bought a complete API test kit and now that I'm ready to start using it everything I read says they are not reliable enough. I dont think i can go wrong with the Hanna's.

@civics14 as a new Reefer I can say it defiantly gets confusing and frustrating to try and figure out what is really needed and what is a waste. Not knowing the best most efficient way to setup a system is really overwhelming sometimes and as a person new to the hobby we research and ask and still end up having to make a choice we dont know is the right one or not.

I've read so many posts over the last year where people are arguing about the "Best" setup, cycle, pump, salt, skimmer.... you name it.
I guess when i get more time in the hobby I'll have my "Best" list as well

 

[civics14]

I read this post about 10 min after I bought BRS's HIREEF2 Professional Reef Test Kit For myself I try to decide how much I will use something and how important the item is to whatever I'm doing. If its something I feel needs to be completely reliable, then I'll look for new as apposed to used, just always been my way. In this case a few months ago i bought a complete API test kit and now that I'm ready to start using it everything I read says they are not reliable enough. I dont think i can go wrong with the Hanna's.

@civics14 as a new Reefer I can say it defiantly gets confusing and frustrating to try and figure out what is really needed and what is a waste. Not knowing the best most efficient way to setup a system is really overwhelming sometimes and as a person new to the hobby we research and ask and still end up having to make a choice we dont know is the right one or not.

I've read so many posts over the last year where people are arguing about the "Best" setup, cycle, pump, salt, skimmer.... you name it.
I guess when i get more time in the hobby I'll have my "Best" list as well

API kits do serve a purpose. If you're not doing a full blown reef system and just going with a few softies, API can be cost efficient to just let you know that you're fairly stable in parameters. For example, I use API test kits on new tanks cause it's cheap and I'm just testing for the cycle to complete. No sense of spending 3-4 times that amount on simple ammonia, nitrite, & nitrate test.

It's all about your goals and what purpose you're looking to serve.

 

[FutureInterest]

Agreed. There is no absolute right way or wrong way to setup a successful reef. What works for someone doesn't always work for others. I still use the API tests for baseline results as they are quick and ez to do. I use Hanna and trident for other tests as well. It just depends what you are trying to get dialed in.

 

[civics14]

I’ve been in and out of this hobby for over 40 years. Here’s what I’ve learned about the systems & equipment used.

You can go-
-high tech
-low tech, or
-no tech
...and make any one of them work.

Most people don’t fail because of lack of know how. Most fail for lack of discipline (and the consistency that results from it).

Agreed. Some things aren’t completely related to money, such as a light or pump.

What is related to success is automation. Why? Because it makes the discipline easier.
Buy a used Apex Classic if you have to, but just about everyone can benefit from using a controller. Ask the ones with beautiful tanks!

As for the salt, an extra $10/month isn’t going to be a blip on the budget of just about anyone in THIS hobby. As for me, I won’t be cleaning any more mud from my mixing barrel or worrying whether cheating compounds are going to harm a $150 frag I’ve been craving. It’s worth my peace of mind.
My $0.02

Automation can work against you as well, you can become complacent and depend on it thinking it's accurate because its been that way for such amount of time. For example, I depended on my controller too much regarding PH control on my calc reactor, one day it started to fail and slip and didn't realize it until my acros have burnt tips. That took some serious time to recover. Needless to say, I don't anymore. Not saying you can't, just don't assume and continue the testing that you normally do than think you're in the clear. Lesson learned.

Secondly, $10 /month for you or several of us is nothing, but for me when I was a starting hobbyist. $10 a month is $10 towards a new frag. Yes, money was tight back then. Cause we're not all looking to buy a $150 frag. Something to think about when giving advice.

 

[qasimja]

people just think their way of doing things is the only way of doing it and if you do it any other way you will fail miserably. there are lots of ways to do this hobby successfully

 

[DiefsReef]

API kits do serve a purpose. If you're not doing a full blown reef system and just going with a few softies, API can be cost efficient to just let you know that you're fairly stable in parameters. For example, I use API test kits on new tanks cause it's cheap and I'm just testing for the cycle to complete. No sense of spending 3-4 times that amount on simple ammonia, nitrite, & nitrate test.

It's all about your goals and what purpose you're looking to serve.

Thats good to hear actually. I'll be cycling 2 primary tanks and 2 gt tanks pretty soon and would rather use the cheaper strips for all that.

 

[ichthyoid]

@DiefsReef we hear you!
If I may make a suggestion, find someone in your area that has a Mac Daddy Reef. It doesn’t need to be big, just be clean & have some beautiful corals. Ask them for advice & if you can get a 2nd water test when needed.
Most will say yes, because they probably had someone help them along the way. Feel free to post up here. Everyone has opinions, but you’ll also see we mostly agree on certain important topics. Like QT everything, because once something is in there, it’s very difficult to get it out.

Buy good quality essentials to start, just like you’re doing. Don’t buy light meters for example. We have several available & you’ll use it infrequently. Don’t buy expensive fish or corals (or anemones) to begin with. Let your skill & knowledge develop a bit first. Things like that.

 

[ActiveAngel]

@DiefsReef we hear you!
If I may make a suggestion, find someone in your area that has a Mac Daddy Reef. It doesn’t need to be big, just be clean & have some beautiful corals. Ask them for advice & if you can get a 2nd water test when needed.
Most will say yes, because they probably had someone help them along the way. Feel free to post up here. Everyone has opinions, but you’ll also see we mostly agree on certain important topics. Like QT everything, because once something is in there, it’s very difficult to get it out.

Buy good quality essentials to start, just like you’re doing. Don’t buy light meters for example. We have several available & you’ll use it infrequently. Don’t buy expensive fish or corals (or anemones) to begin with. Let your skill & knowledge develop a bit first. Things like that.

Perfectly said. I’d also add, watch that person test your water when they’re doing it. Testing can be intimidating at first, but once you know the steps and what you’re looking for, it’s pretty simple. Every brand of test kits is a bit different, but you can transfer the experience. Watching them closely will improve your confidence in yourself.

 

[Adam]

No doubt about it, based on cost, you can make any grouping of equipment fail or succeed. Automation does make things a lot easier but with or without it, it all boils down to how dedicated you are to educating yourself about the hobby. Yes, stability is key. But how does a noob get to that level of stability? There's so much misinformation out there and also what works for one does not work for another. Time and experience usually trumps all.

The best advice I try to give is to not skimp on certain things. Take the first new tank, get one bigger than you think you want. With a skimmer, whether you buy a new or used one, get one properly sized to your system on the higher end of capacity ratings. There's nothing worse than buying the same things multiple times to get the performance you want and/or need.

People can get very good results on a budget but there's no two ways about it, this is an expensive hobby. There's no need to make it more expensive than it needs to be.

 

[civics14]

@DiefsReef we hear you!
If I may make a suggestion, find someone in your area that has a Mac Daddy Reef. It doesn’t need to be big, just be clean & have some beautiful corals. Ask them for advice & if you can get a 2nd water test when needed.
Most will say yes, because they probably had someone help them along the way. Feel free to post up here. Everyone has opinions, but you’ll also see we mostly agree on certain important topics. Like QT everything, because once something is in there, it’s very difficult to get it out.

Buy good quality essentials to start, just like you’re doing. Don’t buy light meters for example. We have several available & you’ll use it infrequently. Don’t buy expensive fish or corals (or anemones) to begin with. Let your skill & knowledge develop a bit first. Things like that.

Yes. I had a few reefers before this whole covid mess happen ask if I can test their water for them and I had no problem. It was quite nice, they came over and brought a sample. Sat around and chat about their goals and got to know them personally as well. One reefer from here, we continue to talk regularly and I consider him a friend now, not just another hobbyist. It's a great experience.

 

[civics14]

No doubt about it, based on cost, you can make any grouping of equipment fail or succeed. Automation does make things a lot easier but with or without it, it all boils down to how dedicated you are to educating yourself about the hobby. Yes, stability is key. But how does a noob get to that level of stability? There's so much misinformation out there and also what works for one does not work for another. Time and experience usually trumps all.

The best advice I try to give is to not skimp on certain things. Take the first new tank, get one bigger than you think you want. With a skimmer, whether you buy a new or used one, get one properly sized to your system on the higher end of capacity ratings. There's nothing worse than buying the same things multiple times to get the performance you want and/or need.

People can get very good results on a budget but there's no two ways about it, this is an expensive hobby. There's no need to make it more expensive than it needs to be.

Also to add to this, which I agree, is to keep a budget in mind and set realistic goals and expectations. Don't expect to be able to spend $1K but have a 150G full blown SPS tank that is fully automated.

 

[Adam]

Another piece of advice I give is, like Bill said, try to meet people within the club and go out and see their systems. Having one or two people local to you is a huge help. But get out and see as many systems as you can, see how they do things, ask questions. I know Covid will make this a lot harder right now but there may be people out there that are still willing to let you in with the proper protections in place. Forums can be tough to get advice from because there is such a large audience. With that audience comes a lot of varying responses. Having a core group of people that are local to you to listen to will really help keep the confusion down.

Just like any hobby, people love to show off and share what they have. Speaking of other hobby's. There are many that are as expensive if not more so. R/C of all kinds, computers, cars, motorcycles... the list goes on an on. They all require a learning curve. The big difference is this hobbies curve is a bit larger than most. Add to that, we're dealing with living things and the stakes go up.

 

[FutureInterest]

Yes. I had a few reefers before this whole covid mess happen ask if I can test their water for them and I had no problem. It was quite nice, they came over and brought a sample. Sat around and chat about their goals and got to know them personally as well. One reefer from here, we continue to talk regularly and I consider him a friend now, not just another hobbyist. It's a great experience.

I've always been meaning to see your setup. I'm going to bring some water and hope you can test it for me.