Phosphate, Silacates or Flow?

[rdnelson]

I have been flooding some of my more trusted sources with questions lately so on this one I decided to give them a break and get thoughts from the general public.

Set up my 125 about a month ago using new sand. I have a Hydro Koralia 2 at one end and a 3 at the other end. Both are mounted up high but angled a little bit down and towards the front of the tank.

A few days ago I noticed what I thought was diatom bloom in the center front of the tank but nothing too bad. Looking closer yesterday it is very red and has a structure similar to the beginnings of hair algae. Appears to be cynao.

Trying to decide what might be the root cause. Do you think it would be the silicates that are usually present in a new tank and therefore will die out once all is consumed (like diatom)? Or, is it just not enough flow to the center of the tank considering my tank is 6' long? Or is the fact that I am test 0.25 on phosphates from my RO water, mixed water and tank water? Or all of the above. I don't have a TDS meeter but I am about to order one but I suspect I need some replacement membranes for the RO unit.

 

[rdnelson]

Here is a picture of it.

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[ripped tide]

Ok, I am sick as hell today, been puking all night , but here we go:


Cyano can be caused from a number of things. Too Much light, the wrong type of light, ionic imbalance, po4, SiO4, hydrogen sulfide, and there are more, but I am too ill to think.


Does that spot get a lot of natural sun? How long are you leaving the leds on? Po4 removal plans? (especially in RO)

 

[rdnelson]

LOL See what you get for drinking all night!!!! LOL And here I thought I was giving you the day off and you jump in anyway.

Light cycle with the LEDs is 12 hours of blues (at about 55%) and 9 hours of whites (at 55%). First order of business is to reduce the light cycle. :-(

I am just about to do a water change and will concentrate on that area of the tank with the siphon. As for natural light, the left end of the tank gets a lot of morning light (RBTA loves it) but the center of the tank does not get direct sunlight. By about 11:00 am it is mostly just ambient sunlight for the whole tank with no direct sun.

As for po4, I am ordering a in-line tds from Air Fire & Ice with the gift certificate I won at the last meeting. I will also order some replacement media for my RO (but first I am going to see what the unit Jaycen has would run me). In the meantime, is there any other way to reduce po4 in my RO?

 

[ripped tide]

Lol this is actually food poisoning or something. Didn't even drink a beer yesterday... Go figure huh? If I drink a sip of water, it's coming right back at me within a min or so.

Cut the lights way way way back. 4-6hrs is all you need, even the blues. If you want some light in between, just get some of those true lumen strips.

Po4 in RO could be contributing to the issue, but I would be more likely to accuse hydrogen sulfide than po4. That tank is still really new. Did you get in on the powerbuy? Those sea systems reactors are great for gfo.

 

[rdnelson]

No I didn't get in on the power buy because I don't have a clue yet what I am doing with stuff like that. LOL I have been starting to think about some type of calcium supplement other than 2 part but wanted to wait until I switch salts to do much of anything. With IO it is just too much dosing. Was planning on going to RC but wouldn't mind trying the salt you suggested in the poll. OK, I will cut the lights back. I liked that schedule because my wife pays more attention during the afternoons but when I am home at night I want to watch it. LOL Guess she is going to have to due without. hehehehe

 

[ripped tide]

There are three methods of ca replenishment that are popular in the hobby, however there are more than three.

Calcium chloride - 2part calcium
Calcium hydroxide - kalkwasser
Calcium carbonate- ca reactor.

I vote ca reactor. It keeps everything very stable.

I have only done Kalk through a drip and I have doses two part befOre.

 

[jennm]

What are your parameters?

Phosphate doesn't only come from poor quality RO water. It's also a byproduct of food and waste.

Full set of parameters, please....

Jenn

 

[rdnelson]

Se here I was trying to give you guys and Jaycen the weekend off any you are the only ones chiming in. LOL

I think I found one contributing factor. Finally figured out what I was doing wrong on my skimmer which I believe was not removing enough of the nutrients. Not sure I have it set just right yet but a least now I can control it. Before today, I couldn't change water levels or anything.

Here are the parameters prior to water change:

Temp 80
Sal 1.024
PH 8
Am 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
Cal 400
Alkalinity 7.5 dKh
Phosphate (Tank) 0.25
Phosphate (Mixed water ready for water change) 0.25
Phosphate (RO) 0.25
Mag 1200

 

[ripped tide]

Bring that mag up a bit. That alk is lower than my preference

 

[tgriffin]

rdnelson99;769109 wrote: Se here I was trying to give you guys and Jaycen the weekend off any you are the only ones chiming in. LOL

I think I found one contributing factor. Finally figured out what I was doing wrong on my skimmer which I believe was not removing enough of the nutrients. Not sure I have it set just right yet but a least now I can control it. Before today, I couldn't change water levels or anything.

Here are the parameters prior to water change:

Temp 80
Sal 1.024
PH 8
Am 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
Cal 400
Alkalinity 7.5 dKh
Phosphate (Tank) 0.25
Phosphate (Mixed water ready for water change) 0.25
Phosphate (RO) 0.25
Mag 1200

I'm no expert by any means but would think that with a properly functioning RO/DI system your phosphates should be 0? Seems like you need to change filters if this is true........ If not somebody correct me so I can learn as well. I had high phosphates and started running phosguard in a reactor. I have heard from numerous people that the test kits aren't reliable for Phosphates. I had mine tested by a friends photometer (sp??) and they were .16. I want that as low as possible so I started running the phosguard. I am currently researching other options on a long term phosphate and nitrate remover.

 

[rdnelson]

Ripped Tide;769111 wrote: Bring that mag up a bit. That alk is lower than my preference

Yup, been working on that which is why I mentioned I was thinking of something other than 2 part for Cal and Alk. In my previous tank it was always an issue too but I was encouraged a bit by today's readings because alk is usually around 7. I did dose yesterday afternoon though. I have been dosing mag about once a week but was being cautious because I was waiting on my test kit to come in (last one ran out a while back). I am pleased to see it is as close as it is.

Edit:

tgriffin;769122 wrote: I'm no expert by any means but would think that with a properly functioning RO/DI system your phosphates should be 0? Seems like you need to change filters if this is true........ If not somebody correct me so I can learn as well. I had high phosphates and started running phosguard in a reactor. I have heard from numerous people that the test kits aren't reliable for Phosphates. I had mine tested by a friends photometer (sp??) and they were .16. I want that as low as possible so I started running the phosguard. I am currently researching other options on a long term phosphate and nitrate remover.

I always read 0 for phosphates up until recently. But then again, I was making about 15 gallons a week was all. Last month, I made 150+ over the course of one week and now make about 20 a week since. I suspect the 150 did a number on the filters considering they were about 10 months old.

 

[eagle9252]

?? when you started the tank you said new sand. was it dry or live? I did 100# in the DT and 20# in the sump of live special reef grade sand and about 20oz of old Fiji pink in the sump. I even picked the pods out the old that I was not going to use. I have never had anything on the sand. my lights run blues about 90% 15:30 to 23:00 and the whits about 75% 16:00 till 22:30. I was told that you never clean all the sand before use and only saving a couple of $$ for the dry was not worth it.

 

[shanepike]

When I had cyano, I was told (among the things I was already doing) to:
<ol>
<li>Jack up the pH (to at least 8.3) and keep it up</li>
<li>Address any dead spots in the flow</li>
<li>Cut the light cycle</li>
</ol>
That and removing the dead turbo snail (which was probably pretty important too ) did the trick for me.

 

[rdnelson]

eagle9252;769142 wrote: ?? when you started the tank you said new sand. was it dry or live? I did 100# in the DT and 20# in the sump of live special reef grade sand and about 20oz of old Fiji pink in the sump. I even picked the pods out the old that I was not going to use. I have never had anything on the sand. my lights run blues about 90% 15:30 to 23:00 and the whits about 75% 16:00 till 22:30. I was told that you never clean all the sand before use and only saving a couple of $$ for the dry was not worth it.

I used dry sand to avoid having any die off. Was not concerned about it seeding because I had plenty of live rock to take care of the bio-load I was transferring. I did wash it well though at the direction of my most trusted LFS.

Edit:

ShanePike;769147 wrote: When I had cyano, I was told (among the things I was already doing) to:
<ol>
<li>Jack up the pH (to at least 8.3) and keep it up</li>
<li>Address any dead spots in the flow</li>
<li>Cut the light cycle</li>
</ol>
That and removing the dead turbo snail (which was probably pretty important too ) did the trick for me.

Yup, I am thinking it is a combination of several things. I did vacuum it out, adjusted my light cycle and redirected the flow a bit. We will see how it does over the next week or so. One side benefit, my largest RBTA moved in less than a 1/2 hour after changing the flow. Now it is front and center standing at attention and looking better than it has since it spit a month or so before I changed setups. You are going to have to stop by again one of the days soon. When is your build thread going to be posted. :yay::yay::yay::yay:

 

[shanepike]

rdnelson99;769149 wrote: When is your build thread going to be posted. :yay::yay::yay::yay:

Soon. Very soon Just completed all my orders today, except for the RO/DI unit (which will be ordered in time to ship Tuesday). Grouper said the stand & canopy will be ready around June 8.

You'll know when everything comes in because I'm sure I'll need help setting it all up :tongue:

 

[rdnelson]

Looking forward to helping.

 

[grouper therapy]

Hydrogen sulfide produced from the anaerobic bacteria in the sand bed is my answer. Vacuum the sand bed and add some sand sifters.

 

[rdnelson]

grouper therapy;769301 wrote: Hydrogen sulfide produced from the anaerobic bacteria in the sand bed is my answer. Vacuum the sand bed and add some sand sifters.

Only reason I would discredit this would be that the sand bed is only a month old with a light bio-load in the tank. Would it still be an issue? Also, in my last tank it was very crowded preventing me from vacuuming the sand very well. In this tank, I have done a much better job. I could see pockets of green stuff in the sand of the old tank but yet never had a problem.

I did vacuum that particular area aggressively yesterday.

 

[ripped tide]

I would not just vacuum it, I would take the wide part of the siphon off and even remove the sand that the cyano was touching. Easier to be safe then sorry.