Play by play of Red Bug Treatment with Interceptor today

[kwl1763]

OK here we go!

First a few things.

My tank is 450 G and I have another almost 200 in sumps. As Eric B. did more research on them (being direct brooders and not hanging out ,always erratically swimming until they find an acro) I decide to take the sumps offline and not treat the sump water. This allowed 2 things: 1) Without the sumps the water volume minus rock, etc in the tank was somewhere around 1 full tablet dose of 380G! 2) It allowed me to drain the sumps, clean them out good and do an almost 200G water change right after the treatment by just starting the return pump up.

Note that I have tons of in tank circulation so losing the relatively small amount was no big deal but it may be for others.

I have 6 cleaner shrimp in there and tons of acro crabs. I fully expected to lose them all but I only lost 2 cleaners. The acro crabs went pretty quick though. It looked like a graveyard on the bottom If your going to treat just be prepared to lose all your crustations you don't get out. You may not but don't get your hopes up!

Ok on the pics I took roughly one per hour and some are good and some are bad! I left all the pumps one and I spent literally 30 seconds each processing them and my goal was to get the bugs to stand out. Not properly represent the coral or have awesome pics, etc so if some are different colors don't worry about it I was trying to show thw bugs the most obvious way.

First the essenials. A container to mix, The Interceptor tab, a spoon to crush it and a piece of paper to crush it on. Most people are probably a little more proper with a morter, etc but a spoon works!

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I'm going to use 2 frags as we go in case the leave one quicker. Here is the first is the one posted above and here is another shot pre treatment.

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After 1 hour:

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Now the first frag has probably the most dense infestation I've ever seen! Also I treated my last tank twice and never saw this but compare the polyp extension of the first frag throughout these. Some people say that once the bugs start dying the really burrough in and irritate the coral. I have to say with this experience that seems very possible to me as the polyps totally withdrew within an hour.

Second hour:

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Not to much change here. I saw less movement but numbers still high. Acro crabs starting kicking it.

Hour 3:

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Significantly less bugs. The ones there appear dead. Coral polyps still totally retracted.

Hour 4:

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I count 5 bugs total in pics, no movement, polyps back out!!!

Hour 5:

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No bugs!!!

Nothing changed after that. After 8 hours I turned the sumps back on (diluting by basically 50%) and starting running 3 phosban reactors full of carbon.

Everything looks great today. I still see lots of pods but no bugs!

I'm only going to treat once since we know they are direct brooders.

And I said earlier this was the first time in this tank but my third total and I would encourage anyone who has them to treat. It's not bad, your tank isn't oing to crash. Your pods won't disappear (granted there is surely some dieoff) but the tank recovers nicely and your acros will love you for it!

 

[cgill311]

I had the same problem with my acros. I just dipped in a diluted Lugol's solution for 30 minutes and it took care of them.

 

[FutureInterest]

Wow very informative. Thanks.

 

[kwl1763]

CGill311 wrote: I had the same problem with my acros. I just dipped in a diluted Lugol's solution for 30 minutes and it took care of them.

2 issues:

1) I have over 30 colonies and many more frags so it's simply impractile. Also many are totally encusted so I would have to chip off every little piece.

2) From http://www.ericborneman.com/Tegastes-content/Research.html">http://www.ericborneman.com/Tegastes-content/Research.html</a> :

2. Lugol's solution (10g potassium iodide, 5g iodine, 100ml H2O)

Iodine is a powerful toxin and oxidant that can be used as a fixative for microbes, specifically ciliates. Two high dose treatments using Lugol's solution were used as a method of dipping corals to kill copepods. The dose levels were 5ml and 10ml in one liter of seawater. Within about 30 seconds at both dose levels, most copepods had bailed off the corals, and fallen to the bottom of the treatment vessel, rapidly dying and turning black. Several corals had copepods still attached to the coral, but all were dead. The dose level at 5m/L was tolerated by corals even highly colonized with copepods, although the effect on the coral was seriously stressful, resulting in partial bleaching, abnormally increased mucus production, and in a few cases, death. The majority of corals survived and recovered within a week and without any copepods present. The duration of treatment varied from 3-10 minutes, and examination of coral fragments under a dissecting scope was performed every minute to assess the status of the parasites. At 10ml/L, copepods died generally within 30 seconds, with some surviving up to 2 minutes. The effects on the corals were more pronounced and resulted in significant mortality, especially at durations from 2-5 minutes. This may be a good “dip” method for minimally colonized corals that can tolerate the high dosage of Lugol's solution. At dose levels suggested in the aquarium literature for other maladies such as "brown jelly infections" (i.e 20 drops/liter for 20-30 minutes), there was no observed death of copepods, even after one hour of treatment. There may be an intermediate dose level of Lugol's solution that is effective in either causing the parasites to abandon their host or killing them while minimally harming the corals, but this dosage has not been determined.

 

[hng]

Not to burst your bubble, but i think you should have treated the sump and as well. Red bugs can live for up to 5 days without an acropora host, so if a single red bug was in your sump or water line that wasn't treated, it will reproduce and you are back to step one. Also, Borneman has recommended a much longer treatment time than 6 hours. It seems that acros have very little side effects from interceptor and treatments of up to 24 hours have been done without any problems to corals. I hope it doesn't happen to you, but if it doesn, just treat the entire system next time.

 

[cgill311]

1) Do red bugs live only on acros?

2) What is the natural solution (I.E. fish or invert predator) of red bugs?

 

[hng]

Red bugs are only hosted by acropora species, but they can live for up to 5 days in the absence of an acro. I don't think anyone really knows what the natural solution for red bugs are.

 

[cgill311]

Where did you buy Interceptor? I ask b/c I thought I had killed all the little buggers, but found a few last night on the acros.

How bad is it for the acro to not treat for red bugs?

 

[kwl1763]

I actually treated for 8 going on 9 hours. 24 would be better but you also risk losing all your shrimp and pods. If I didn't care about I would just leave the medicine in for a week or so. It doesn't hurt anything except crustations.

I did treat the entire system. I took the sumps offline, emptied and totally cleaned them with fresh water and vinegar. The system at that point was the tank. Is there some really small chance that in some drop of water in a pipe somewhere there was one? maybe but it's miniscule. It's a risk I'm willing to take.

There are some reports that some types of pipefish eat red bugs but that's it so far and generally they aren't good reef fish.


It can lead to acro death, sometimes it doesn't do much of anything but most often leads to bleaching and stunted growth.

Here is a great link for all you ever wanted to know!

http://www.ericborneman.com/Tegastes-content/Research.html">http://www.ericborneman.com/Tegastes-content/Research.html</a>

Interceptor: [IMG]http://www.petmedstore.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=petmedstore/CTGY/INTCEP">http://www.petmedstore.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=petmedstore/CTGY/INTCEP</a> call them and explain what you are doing with it and they should give it to you.

 

[hng]

My bad Kwl1763, didn't realize you cleaned out the sump like that. You are right, the odds of a red bug escaping is low. I guess my point was more for anyone else who might be treating their tank and NOT planning on cleaing out their sump - they run a reasonable risk of having the red bugs return due to incomplete treatment.

 

[glxtrix]

I've heard that red bugs arent free floating/swimming so they will only stay on acros that they are on or can get too easily.

 

[maveri9720]

Chris,

I'm sure if you went to a local vet and told them your situation, they would sell you some.

Call around first to eliminate wasting time and gas.

If you still can't find any, I'll hook you up, seeing as how I have two big dogs and am always buying them their HW meds.

 

[cgill311]

Thanks Mav. I'll make some calls first to see if I can procure my own.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

Vets may not be very likely to hand out interceptor for unintended purposes. It is a prescription med, and the vet will be risking their license to issue it for a non-labelled purpose.

 

[maveri9720]

That's true, I didn't think about that.

Well, if anyone needs some, I can provide you some of mine for what I pay for it. If I remember right, I think it's pretty cheap, like $6/tablet.

Speaking of, I need to give my dogs their monthly treat.

 

[showtime305]

Maveri9720 wrote: That's true, I didn't think about that.

Well, if anyone needs some, I can provide you some of mine for what I pay for it. If I remember right, I think it's pretty cheap, like $6/tablet.

Speaking of, I need to give my dogs their monthly treat.

I can really use some. I'll PM you tonight.

 

[maveri9720]

Well, if you REALLY need it, then it's like $20/tablet. :wow2:

No prob, just drop me a line.