Plumbing a chiller...

[y-not]

Before I get too far, please understand that I'm sort of new to this and what might be common sense to some, is bewildering to others (maybe me??).

I have a RSM 250 (66g) tank. I've already got a chiller installed and it's working just as one would desire.

But...being a "water" chiller turns it into a room warmer.
The water is chilled but the room is far, far from chilled. Between the heat from the lights, the flat screen TV and the chiller, it's getting too **** hot to sit in the same room and watch the tank or the TV.

So...I'm in the process of setting up an auto water changing station in my basement. The area just happens to be directly below where the tank is sitting.

I've got the water changing part all figured out and the hardware that is needed is being acquired as I type. That's where the newest idea of mine came in.

What if I were to move the chiller into the basement and simply have the hoses to/from the chiller/tank running through the floor? There's already an access point to the basement, just behind the tank. No need to cut holes in the floor. Plus that would piss off the wife beyond belief.

My question is, would I need a different pump to circulate the water through the chiller?

My thoughts at first was "Yes". I would.
But the more I think about it, I'm starting to think, "No".

Please correct me if you see a flaw in my thinking. I'm sort of use to it. My wife does it all the time.

Let's say the chiller is in the basement. 10 feet below where it is sitting right now and the hoses have already been run to/from the chiller and are reconnected to the tank. All of the air has been purged from the hoses & chiller. It seems to me that it would not require any additional pump pressure to move the water from one hose, down and back up to the same level.

I know that when I siphon water, if I keep the output end at the same level as the tank water, that it requires very little effort to move the water. But if I try to move the water from the tank to a higher level, it gets harder to push the water.

So...with both hose ends being at the same level and the hoses/chillers free of air bubbles, it seems that I could just continue to use the same pump that I have in place right now.

What do you all think?
Use the current pump?
Get a new pump with a higher head pressure?
Or try the current pump, see what happens and if needed, get a new pump if needed?

Is that about as clear as mud?

 

[enderg60]

Youre kind of over thinking things....

Unless youre running more flow then the inlet size of the chiller can handle just run all your return flow through it.

as long as you are above the minimum flow of the chiller(to slow and it could freeze the coil) it doesnt matter how much flow is going through it, the same amount of heat(or cooling) will be delivered to the tank.

When I had one on my old tank I put the chiller outside and insulated the piping, but that is just because I didnt want the heat and noise in my living room.

If you put it in the basement you have a closed loop type situation, the flow will be the same as if it was on the same level as the tank.

 

[y-not]

EnderG60;880491 wrote: Youre kind of over thinking things....

Yeah, I have a tend to go either one way or the other.

Over think it and talk myself out of something or under think it and end up in a cluster of a mess.

EnderG60;880491 wrote: If you put it in the basement you have a closed loop type situation, the flow will be the same as if it was on the same level as the tank.

That's what I've been thinking. It'll take/use just as much pump pressure at 3 feet as it would 13 feet as long as the in/out hoses are submerged at the same level.

Does anyone else care to chime in and offer up their 2 cents?

 

[ff337]

could use a separate pump to run the chiller in the basement.

You would need a pump capable of delivering x amount of GPM/GPH through x amount of pipe. Then calculate the head loss for lifting from the chiller to the sump/tank. You don't add anything for the vertical drop since gravity is your friend. This might work out to be little to no loss of head pressure.

This is how we figure out what pressures we need to flow fire pumps. Friction loss is friction loss however, construction of components such as fittings, hose/pipe construction, etc is depended upon design/technology.

 

[y-not]

FF337;880496 wrote: could use a separate pump to run the chiller in the basement.

You would need a pump capable of delivering x amount of GPM/GPH through x amount of pipe. Then calculate the head loss for lifting from the chiller to the sump/tank. You don't add anything for the vertical drop since gravity is your friend. This might work out to be little to no loss of head pressure.

This is how we figure out what pressures we need to flow fire pumps. Friction loss is friction loss however, construction of components such as fittings, hose/pipe construction, etc is depended upon design/technology.

I think I grasped "x amount" of what you just said. :unsure:

I suspect that I'll have to dork with this a bit before I know for sure that it'll work as desired.
I'm hoping that with the use of gravity doing most of the work, all that will be needed is some minor assistance of the pump to keep things flowing.

With the auto water change, it's pretty simple. Low flow pump to move water from the tank to the drain, again, letting gravity do most of the work. Then a higher head pressure pump to pump fresh saltwater up and back into the tank. I've got that down.

I beginning to wish that I had not thought about relocating the chiller. But..it's just too **** warm in the living room with everything else plus the chiller adding to the heat.

 

[ff337]

find out what your Gallons per minute/gallons per hour requirements are for your chiller. Then figure out your math for roughly 1.5 times that amount.

Say its 500 gph. You have 25 feet of pipe, with 10 feet of drop and 10 feet of rise - which should reset it self (honestly i need to look into if this is true, I have never had to figure this out with a basement). You need to find a pump that flows 750 gph through 25 feet of pipe. The extra .5 x or 250 gph is wiggle room. You can always gate back, you can not super charge the pumper.

Edit: one recommendation if you decide to piddle. Don't gravity feed the chiller. If for any reason the line gets blocked (snail, algae, fish) you may never know.

Edit: http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/hlc2.php

http://www.reefaquarium.com/2012/aquarium-plumbing-basics/

These may help.

 

[reeferman]

you are going to be limited on what pump will actually fit in the back chamber of the chiller port on the rsm 250.id recommend finding the biggest pump that will fit in there and use that.with the size of that chamber,theres no way the pump could be oversized

 

[y-not]

reeferman;880516 wrote: you are going to be limited on what pump will actually fit in the back chamber of the chiller port on the rsm 250.id recommend finding the biggest pump that will fit in there and use that.with the size of that chamber,theres no way the pump could be oversized

The JBJ SP1300 that was included with the chiller fits in the chamber without any issues. Now that I've found the specs for that pump and taking into account that the rise will be off set by the drop, I'm thinking that the pump I have should move the right amount of water without any problems.

Now I just need to buy 30 feet of hose and get to work.

 

[ff337]

If its not enough then you know how much to go by

 

[y-not]

FF337;880560 wrote: If its not enough then you know how much to go by

Yup.
And while I'm getting hose, I'll make double sure that I can get my hands on a higher flow pump if needed.