Plumbing Questions for 65 gallon build

[tsellers]

I'm finally going to start building my 65 gallon reef tank and have several questions about my plumbing set up. Based on my research I want to have a sump in the basement instead of in the cabinet underneath the tank. So, I embarked on an elaborate (and possibly crazy) plumbing set up which you can see in the pics below. My questions are...

- Do I need to worry about temperature swings given that most of my pvc pipe is running through the garage (which isn't insulated)? Can I just insulate the pipe with black foam covering from HD/Lowe's?

- What pump would you recommend? Measurements of the pipe length are about 15' vertically and about 47' horizontally. The pump in one of the attached pics is supposed to provide 780GPH at 15' of head pressure. I don't want the return pump to provide the main flow in the tank but it needs to be able to at least get it back to the DT.

The tank dimensions are 36"x18"x24" and the sump dimensions are 36"x18"x15".

Thanks in advance for your help.
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[grouper therapy]

tsellers;695870 wrote: I'm finally going to start building my 65 gallon reef tank and have several questions about my plumbing set up. Based on my research I want to have a sump in the basement instead of in the cabinet underneath the tank. So, I embarked on an elaborate (and possibly crazy) plumbing set up which you can see in the pics below. My questions are...

- Do I need to worry about temperature swings given that most of my pvc pipe is running through the garage (which isn't insulated)? Can I just insulate the pipe with black foam covering from HD/Lowe's?

- What pump would you recommend? Measurements of the pipe length are about 15' vertically and about 47' horizontally. The pump in one of the attached pics is supposed to provide 780GPH at 15' of head pressure. I don't want the return pump to provide the main flow in the tank but it needs to be able to at least get it back to the DT.

The tank dimensions are 36"x18"x24" and the sump dimensions are 36"x18"x15".

Thanks in advance for your help.

Insulating the pipe will be fine but may not be needed barring leaving the door open on extreme temp days.
What size pipe did you use and what is the pump make and model?

 

[tsellers]

grouper therapy;695924 wrote: Insulating the pipe will be fine but may not be needed barring leaving the door open on extreme temp days.
What size pipe did you use and what is the pump make and model?

- Drain side is 1"
- Return side is 3/4"
- The pump is a GRI (Gorman Rupp Industries) model #14520-304

 

[budsreef]

I think I would insulate the pipes just in case. The winter would probably be OK since it is easier to heat the tank but the summer might be bad since keeping the door closed will really heat up the garage.

Since you already have the pump plumbed in, do a test by adding water to the sump, have someone turn the pump on and let it run into a bucket. Time how long it takes to do a couple of gallons and that will give you the return rate.

The bigger issue you are going to have is accounting for all the water that is in the pipes that will go back into the sump if the pump turns off. Both the return and drain will empty back into the sump.

 

[coolsurf]

Budsreef;695957 wrote:
The bigger issue you are going to have is accounting for all the water that is in the pipes that will go back into the sump if the pump turns off. Both the return and drain will empty back into the sump.

+1 Big worries on that one.

 

[jrocker1]

Budsreef;695957 wrote: The bigger issue you are going to have is accounting for all the water that is in the pipes that will go back into the sump if the pump turns off. Both the return and drain will empty back into the sump.

That's true, but I think you could just put a check valve just above the return pump to take care of that half of the piping at least. You'd have to do some funky piping to get that to work on the drain piping though.

 

[budsreef]

I agree with putting a check valve just above the pump but not as a fix for all the water in the line. If there is a power glitch, sometimes the hard backflow can make a pump cavitate. A check valve would relieve the back pressure on the pump. However they are prone to get very dirty and fail when you need it to work at its best so I'd still figure out a failsafe to account for both lines.

 

[tsellers]

I really appreciate all of the responses!

I will definitely insulate the pipes running through the garage.

As far as the pump/power failure issue, great point! I think I may plum in a check valve on the pump side. Also, I, with help from Google, performed a few calculations to determine how much water would drain back to the sump in the event of a pump/power failure. According to my calculations, 5 gallons would would flow back to the sump from the drain and return lines. My sump will hold about 42 gallons. Since I plan on running an in sump skimmer do you think I will be able to control the working volume of the sump to a point that will allow for skimmer, heaters, etc and still have room for the 5 gallons that will flow back if the power fails?

 

[grouper therapy]

70' Of 1" pipe only holds less than a gallon of water. if my math is right, 3.14 x 1x1
= area x 70 /231 so if you have enough sump to handle 2 gallons out of the lines then no concerns there. It appears that most of your garage is concrete walls on either side?My sumps in my basement which was not insulated and only undergrade on the front and a portion of one end. No temp problems here.
Show me your math 0I may be way off here.

 

[tsellers]

Below is my calculation for the 1" drain pipe. I used the same calc for the 3/4" pipe but used .75 for my inside diameter.

Volume=Area of pipe*(h) where h=height of my pipe

Area=Pi*(r squared)
Area=3.14*(1in/2)squared where 1 is the inside diameter of my pipe in inches divided by 2 to get the radius
Area=.78539 in. squared

Volume=.78539 in. squared*(780in) 65ft of pipe=780in
Volume=613cu in

613cu in=2.7 gallons (i used an online conversion calculator for this)

 

[grouper therapy]

tsellers;696221 wrote: Below is my calculation for the 1" drain pipe. I used the same calc for the 3/4" pipe but used .75 for my inside diameter.

Volume=Area of pipe*(h) where h=height of my pipe

Area=Pi*(r squared)
Area=3.14*(1in/2)squared where 1 is the inside diameter of my pipe in inches divided by 2 to get the radius
Area=.78539 in. squared

Volume=.78539 in. squared*(780in) 65ft of pipe=780in
Volume=613cu in

613cu in=2.7 gallons (i used an online conversion calculator for this)

You are dead on:thumbs: I used diameter:doh:

 

[budsreef]

Don't forget that is only the water in the pipes, you'll still have several gallons that will come from your tank and overflow box depending on where the return line syphon break point is and how watertight your overflow box is. That's about another 3 gallons per inch of drop and you'll have at least an inch I would think. Assuming your return section is a third of the sump, less depending on how high the inner baffles are, that's only 14 gallons minus at least 8 gallons of room for pump off condition, leaving only 6 gallons max in the return section. I know these aren't the actual numbers but are just to give you an idea of what you need to overcome.

I can't tell for sure by the picture, but it looks like the float valve, which I assume is for an ATO, is pretty high in the return section. If it is it will need to be moved down quite a bit.

 

[jesse'sgirl]

Also the more of the 90s that u can swap out with 45s will help. In the next to last pic I see two 90s in each run if pipe. Can u take that through the wall up high and then drop it through the ceiling and that would eliminate a couple of 90s, and possibly even the flex hose. That in return will help with less head pressure and maybe even a better drain path.

 

[rbredding]

for pumps, there's really only one choice.. go with a Reeflo pump.. (I think that LilRob still has a couple that are new in crate that he'd sell)..

they actually use less wattage if you valve them back.. (I run a Snapper on my setup)
they run silent (actually silent, not "silent for a pump", silent)
they are pretty much the best return pump out there..

 

[tsellers]

Budsreef;696277 wrote: Don't forget that is only the water in the pipes, you'll still have several gallons that will come from your tank and overflow box depending on where the return line syphon break point is and how watertight your overflow box is. That's about another 3 gallons per inch of drop and you'll have at least an inch I would think. Assuming your return section is a third of the sump, less depending on how high the inner baffles are, that's only 14 gallons minus at least 8 gallons of room for pump off condition, leaving only 6 gallons max in the return section. I know these aren't the actual numbers but are just to give you an idea of what you need to overcome.

I can't tell for sure by the picture, but it looks like the float valve, which I assume is for an ATO, is pretty high in the return section. If it is it will need to be moved down quite a bit.

Great point Budsreef RE accounting for the drainage from the tank when power is lost! The sump has two baffles in it which basically splits it into three equal sections. Each baffle is only 5" tall. I'm not sure if that will be an issue or not. Seems to me that the operating volume of the sump will be above the baffles creating one large body of water instead of it being sectioned off. Maybe I just need to fill the system with water and test it out.

Edit:

jesse'sgirl;696306 wrote: Also the more of the 90s that u can swap out with 45s will help. In the next to last pic I see two 90s in each run if pipe. Can u take that through the wall up high and then drop it through the ceiling and that would eliminate a couple of 90s, and possibly even the flex hose. That in return will help with less head pressure and maybe even a better drain path.

I wish I could get rid of a few of the 90s but I had to make the turn you see in the pic because that is a stairway that leads to the upper floor of the house.