Powder Brown Tang death..

[Shawn]

So - never seen or heard of this one. Perfectly healthy looking powder brown tang at the store. Nipping at stone. Swimming, breathing, active. I get him home and put him in untreated QT. Three days and he's dead. I noticed day before yesterday he had some minor discoloration. This morning and I checked in and he's got spots - I figured black ich and I would start treatment tonight. Can anyone confirm what this is? To go from nothing - clear coat - to this in three days...

 

[ichthyoid]

First, I’m sorry for your loss. They are such beautiful fish!

That said, tangs are often called ich magnets, due to their high incidence of ectoparasite infection. That quickly, almost guaranteed brooklynella or similar disease. You likely won’t ever know, without microscopic confirmation. I suspect their tendency to contract may be due to a combination of thin slime coat, immune system issues/tolerance and/or stress.

I just assume that they are all sick and treat them as soon as I get home, with chloroquine phosphate if possible.

 

[Shawn]

This is why I qt. Luckily that didn’t wipe out my other beautiful fish. I didn’t treat tho as I feel like that stresses them out even more. Maybe I should have. Was just sad and sudden. Was hoping the spots gave some indication as to what it was.

 

[Adam]

I'd say Brook too. I don't think even Black Ich causes death as fast as Brook and three days is quick. It's a bit late and I'm sure you've tossed it already but checking the gills for parasites is about the only thing you can do without a microscope.

@ActiveAngel may have some more info.

Once I'm up and running again I'm going to offer a fish QT service for supporting members for a small fee. I will have a 60 breeder that is constantly running chloroquine phosphate for the fish that can take it and a 20L that I'll use for fish that can't. The 20L will have Metro and then copper if needed. The last part of the QT process will be a round of Prazi dosed prophylacticly. If nothing else it's a good dewormer. I don't like to do it first because it tends to create bacterial bloom in the tank a few days after dosing. Nothing harmful but a general PITA for viewing the fish.

I had hoped to get the floors sealed in the basement this weekend but my back went out on Friday morning then the floor grinder I was going to rent went in for repair. The plan is now to seal the floor next Saturday then begin setting up the fish room.

 

[civics14]

That looks like Black Ich (turbellarians)

 

[Adam]

That looks like Black Ich (turbellarians)

Could be both Brook and Black Ich. Most parasites like Ich and flukes show some signs of fish stress, like rapid breathing, long before morality and them alone usually don't cause death in a just a few days.

 

[ichthyoid]

Fwiw, Turbellarians are flat worms, as I recall.

 

[civics14]

They are and its an easy treatment with prazi. Just the black raised specks make me suggest it. However as Adam stated, it doesn’t cause death that fast.

Fwiw, Turbellarians are flat worms, as I recall.

 

[Shawn]

I think it was definitely black ich, but I think there was something else as well.

Either way, it's too late now. Was just trying to get some input on what others thought. I have no issues treating ich, as evident with my recent blue hippo tang recovery efforts. I just thought I had a little more time to act with this fish. Sad. But this is part of the hobby.

Luckily I didn't pay for the fish - just traded corals for it. So I'm not really out of money from it - But I really liked the fish and thought it would go well in my tank.

 

[Adam]

I think it was definitely black ich, but I think there was something else as well.

Either way, it's too late now. Was just trying to get some input on what others thought. I have no issues treating ich, as evident with my recent blue hippo tang recovery efforts. I just thought I had a little more time to act with this fish. Sad. But this is part of the hobby.

Luckily I didn't pay for the fish - just traded corals for it. So I'm not really out of money from it - But I really liked the fish and thought it would go well in my tank.

You know I may change up the QT order when I have everything set up. I think I'll try and see if I can get a constantly dosed 20L with Prazi and try to get the bacterial bloom dealt with. Then the fish will go in there first for a couple days then into the other tanks depending on the fish type. Something for me to think about.

 

[qasimja]

You know I may change up the QT order when I have everything set up. I think I'll try and see if I can get a constantly dosed 20L with Prazi and try to get the bacterial bloom dealt with. Then the fish will go in there first for a couple days then into the other tanks depending on the fish type. Something for me to think about.

do you find dosing prazi your fish stop eating after the first 24 hours or so

 

[ActiveAngel]

Yeah, my thoughts are in line with many of the posts already stated.

it’s a real bummer. And also as previously mentioned, especially for tangs it is best to assume infected upon arrival. Wild tangs that are disease free is rare.

 

[Adam]

do you find dosing prazi your fish stop eating after the first 24 hours or so

Depends on the fish really. I find Copper being more of a problem. I like to get fish eating within several hours of getting them in QT. I usually put them in the tank with no light other than ambient and let them settle in for a few hours then try feeding frozen. I also like to have more than one fish in QT, something about seeing another fish eating that initiates a feeding response.

 

[ichthyoid]

Some fish, including wild caught anthias, have been known to come in with flat worms so bad that when treated they regurgitate high numbers from their throats and/or stomachs.

This can also open them up to a secondary bacterial and/or fungal infection, due to open wounds from where the worms were attached.

I mention this because of Adam’s point about the process. I also think it important!

 

[Shawn]

So - if I was to just pretreat every fish coming in - what would y'all recommend in a 10g QT?

 

[ichthyoid]

It probably depends on the fish, both species & size. Tangs are big swimmers.

 

[bzb]

I prophylactically treat everything coming in via 10G tank. But I don't have anything very large (in fact, the smaller, the "cuter" it is to my kids). My last introduction included a tiny yellow/blue damsel that was no bigger... than a Pekingnese. A PEKINGNESE.

It was smaller than my fingernail... daughter just had to have it. Bonus nerd points if you get the reference, though.

This is my accelerated process, based off suggestions from R2R, here, and direct chats with HumbleFish and other experts. This balances my risk tolerance with impatience.

bzb's 90 Gallon

Figured I'd stop updating my problem threads and post updates here. I really enjoy seeing the progress photos and how much things have grown, so I'll continue that here, instead! From Feb 2, 2020: New update! I've now got the dosing pumps doing ~15mL daily of both Alk and Ca. I do the...

atlantareefclub.org

 

[qasimja]

I prophylactically treat everything coming in via 10G tank. But I don't have anything very large (in fact, the smaller, the "cuter" it is to my kids). My last introduction included a tiny yellow/blue damsel that was no bigger... than a Pekingnese. A PEKINGNESE.

It was smaller than my fingernail... daughter just had to have it. Bonus nerd points if you get the reference, though.

This is my accelerated process, based off suggestions from R2R, here, and direct chats with HumbleFish and other experts. This balances my risk tolerance with impatience.

bzb's 90 Gallon

Figured I'd stop updating my problem threads and post updates here. I really enjoy seeing the progress photos and how much things have grown, so I'll continue that here, instead! From Feb 2, 2020: New update! I've now got the dosing pumps doing ~15mL daily of both Alk and Ca. I do the...

atlantareefclub.org

i pretty much followed your method i didn't like to use copper before but having all those fish die in QT on me i changed my mind plus copper power isn't too hard on the fish i had 2 pyramid butterfly fish in copper for 3 weeks along with the trifecta antibiotics for 10 days because one of them had what looked to be a bacterial infection i put them into the DT this morning

 

[bzb]

i pretty much followed your method i didn't like to use copper before but having all those fish die in QT on me i changed my mind plus copper power isn't too hard on the fish i had 2 pyramid butterfly fish in copper for 3 weeks along with the trifecta antibiotics for 10 days because one of them had what looked to be a bacterial infection i put them into the DT this morning

Through this method I've only lost a single Copperband Butterfly, but I don't have any of the really cool fish that you've got. I got simple fish tastes.

Like some catfish, little breading and grease, some hot sauce and malt vinegar... I'm golden.